When my brother and I first started forming bands we made one basic agreement. If we ever managed to write a song weird Al covered, would immediately retire from music. 😂
Muzak actually plays the real songs now, and my local supermarket seems to have theme days on the piped-in music. One day the theme seemed to be 1960s rock singers who died of heroin ODs, but another day I heard all this fantastic 1950s rockabilly I'd never discovered before.
Yeah, that's what I meant about elevator music . . . Muzak lives due to ancient "research" indicating that playing such improves "performance." I believe it's been shown than anything new seems to improve performance, but only for a short time.
Math was never my best subject in school but even -I- couldn’t follow the math on some of these deals. Stevie Nicks? Bob Dylan? Neil Young? Great performers and writers, all, but does anyone under fifty recognize them to any degree? Do they have the catalogue of instantly recognizable songs that, say, Prince, Madonna, even Daryl Hall have (kudos to the latter two for not selling out). You tell me: How do -you- monetize “Maggie’s Farm”?
My 14 year old is deeper into 70s and 80s Rock than i am. The platforms push it hard in their algorithms. Many many young kids are into boomer rock. It's insane. IMO Maggies Farm would be a great ad for edgy foodstuffs. But to your point, what % of Dylan catalog can be sold? Re: original songs in film. Think academy award winning songs and soundtracks from 70s - 90s. Lots of them went on to sell huge and drew huge audience. I for one watched several from that era because of a Springsteen song: The Wrestler, The Crossing, Streets of Philadelphia. All original songs i could not get anywhere else until a compilation was released. I paid for a theater ticket to hear the songs. Streaming and SM have changed all that.
Keep in mind that back then musicians often gave songs to actors or filmmakers out of friendship or collaboration. O'Rourke's Wrestler was his come back movie. Bruce helped him out. Same with his relationship with John Sayles. With younger musicians does this still happen? Maybe. I don't know. It's a good question. But the financiers are now the deal makers for the oldies. Too bad for us, but why would someone like Young or Springsteen sit on $500m off assets that will dwindle in value? Why not cash out before they die?
I'm often surprised at how many younger people listen to the ancient music of my youth. I think there was a lull in recognition, but then all the 60s and 70s stuff made a come back. What happened to the 50s and before? I have no idea. It wasn't just boomer nostalgia.
P.S. The play "Girl From the North Country" used Dylan's music. There was even a cast album. No "Maggie's Farm" though.
Sometimes it just takes one perfectly timed placement for under-30s to give a listen. Just ask Kate Bush (I’m holding my breath for the Dusty Springfield renaissance).
Part of the motivation to buy those books was the fame of the owner(s). The other part was theor recognition that millions would respond to a catchy tune!
Monetization is publishing and licensing. Some of these songs still make pretty good “mail box money”. I didn’t see that kind of value in the catalogs and I’ve worked for many of those acts over the last 40 plus years. We’re hearing more of the chart topper songs from the 70s to the 90s in ads and TV and movies. There is money there just not enough to justify those values.
Labels have always been about rights management. At first it was physical goods like mechanicals and masters. What’s being called “IP” is just the electronic distribution of physical goods we used to buy in stores.
I've been seeing more and more Boomer songs in new streaming series and movies. They are not entirely a bad fit, but the majority are. Example: Apple's "The Last Thing He Told Me," an above average mini series about the disapearance of a rich techie, opens with Springsteen's "Ghost of Tom Joad," and droression era folk song. "Air," the Air Jordan's biopic, closes with "Born in the USA." Both seem to be clear marketing decisions to draw boomers like me. The songs have Nothing to do with the shows. But how long will filmmakers write those checks when the miserable ROI on them become clear? Or... maybe they are good Film investments? I don't see it. I see original songs in films as having greater traction. At least they did in the pre-streaming world.
Maybe. I mean we can all remember original songs for movies that both made a fortune and helped sell the movie. Saturday Night Fever and Grease pretty much made Robert Stigwood.
But I can also think of a zillion great movies where they took songs that were already out there and repurposed them. The Graduate, Easy Rider, Pulp Fiction. Ted has written about how nothing really replaces certain classical music pieces in movies, despite the gradual slow death of that genre.
Whatever the case, it's one helluva a skill deciding what music to use in movies.
If they were smart, the investment funds would sell off the songs individually. To rich fans. What billionaire wouldn't love to say he owns Lay, Lady, Lay or Bridge Over Troubled Water or Heart Of Gold? The artists themselves could even buy back a few sentimental favorites. Or they could auction them off. Or raffle them. "Win a song and collect royalties your whole life!" Get creative!
But what if, choosing a random billionaire, Elon Musk, just bought the eternal rights to “Bridge Over Troubled Water” simply out of spite? And if you didn’t own a hard copy of the song, you are likely never to hear it in public again? Call me strange, but I actually lose sleep over stuff like this.
That is a possibility. But an extremely unlikely possibility. Does Elon Musk have an intense hatred of Paul Simon or that song? 🤣 Even if he did and was willing to spend (likely) millions to stop a song from being played, there are enough hard and digital copies out there that digital copies would flood the internet faster than Elon could play wack-a-mole trying to stop them. And I imagine musicians would cover the song live out of spite also.
It is also not likely they will sell the songs off one by one. It was just a thought I had. Although I am willing to accept a huge fee from the investment funds for using my brilliant idea. 😉🤓
Two thoughts arising form the great article (yes Ted, you did predict it!) and many of the comments. First, while I agree and have agreed with Ted's argument, I don't think the latest sales can be assumed to be conclusive evidence that the assets are not worth (at the present time) the declared fair market value and the market is collapsing now. Every industry is being hit with asset sales when business models based on debt leverage cannot cope with sharply increased interest rates. There are opportunistic deals to be had in any market right now (and horrible sales to be made and endured) because the interest cost of the leveraging loans is unexpectedly enormous. And that drives investors who at one time were happy with a lower return on investment demanding higher returns to account for the inflation causing such interest rate increases. Some ill-prepared management teams get caught in the squeeze.
Second, several ask why the artists are selling their songs (hardly "for a song") when they have so much cash already. Answer: inheritance taxes, increasing income and capital gain taxes, kids with no musical or business talent that will fight and mess up the value of the songs: better to sell the assets and hand them cash on a tax efficient basis for an annuity rather than see the fighting that the beneficiaries of Prince's estate and others engage in for decades. I think I saw commentary on a couple of "portfolios" sold immediately prior to the latest federal income tax rates coming into effect.
Hey watch what you say about El Paso. I’ve commissioned two versions of the Marty Robbins song, as tributes to my former Gunn hoops teammate, who set the Miners record for most games played, was drafted by the Knicks, was all Australia , died jan 28 2023 in Melbourne after dvt.
I loved Donovan in his soundtrack of Zefferelli's "Brother Sun, Sister Moon." (Ok, fire me!) I could never listen to him outside of that movie though. Film and music should be an artistic collaboration, with "pressure" To commercialize from the financiers. The decisions seen now to be starting from the financial end. At least with respect to the boomer music. Sad.
A substack piece by Charles Hugh Smith hit my inbox at the same moment as this piece. Charles is discussing the endless popularity of old songs and the vapidity of new material.
He was triggered by hearing a 50-year-old rock song as the theme of an ad for Ford trucks. Maybe that's a clue about the destination of these catalogs?
I played a gig a couple months ago with the bass player of Cameo. He's featured most famously on their song 'Word Up.' I just went to a dinner at a gastropub and they had music playing on the sound system. That song came on and wished I could have been on that recording. It's still being played on TV shows, movie soundtracks, and now in restaurants...yet it came out in the '80s.
It's the capital glut. Too much money sloshing around at the top and not enough down below to provide investment opportunities. Wall Street is full of harvesters who never realized that one has to plant seed.
Quite simply, why the fuck did or do any of them need more money? The musical versions of George fucking Clooney hawking fucking plastic coffee pellets. Where’s their fucking dignity?
(Note. This contains gratuitous swearing, and without context some may think he’s mocking George’s sexuality. He’s not - watch the full routine which i’m not going to link to.)
A lot of good points there . . . two others from the Billboard article are (1) the songs were sold to a sister company that is connected with BlackRock, which is a bit questionable, and (2) though sold for under "fair market value", they were also sold for 25% more than Hipgnosis paid. So maybe not _such_ a bad deal.
I used to tell my students " . . . your goal in life is to hear you music on elevators," as I knew most of them wanted to "be famous."
This after I actually had heard "In a Gadda Da Vida" on an elevator . . . the 1001 strings version!
Uh, "wadda world!"
When my brother and I first started forming bands we made one basic agreement. If we ever managed to write a song weird Al covered, would immediately retire from music. 😂
In a Gadda Da Vida, the original, was my first album
Kewl!
Muzak actually plays the real songs now, and my local supermarket seems to have theme days on the piped-in music. One day the theme seemed to be 1960s rock singers who died of heroin ODs, but another day I heard all this fantastic 1950s rockabilly I'd never discovered before.
Yeah, that's what I meant about elevator music . . . Muzak lives due to ancient "research" indicating that playing such improves "performance." I believe it's been shown than anything new seems to improve performance, but only for a short time.
Math was never my best subject in school but even -I- couldn’t follow the math on some of these deals. Stevie Nicks? Bob Dylan? Neil Young? Great performers and writers, all, but does anyone under fifty recognize them to any degree? Do they have the catalogue of instantly recognizable songs that, say, Prince, Madonna, even Daryl Hall have (kudos to the latter two for not selling out). You tell me: How do -you- monetize “Maggie’s Farm”?
My 14 year old is deeper into 70s and 80s Rock than i am. The platforms push it hard in their algorithms. Many many young kids are into boomer rock. It's insane. IMO Maggies Farm would be a great ad for edgy foodstuffs. But to your point, what % of Dylan catalog can be sold? Re: original songs in film. Think academy award winning songs and soundtracks from 70s - 90s. Lots of them went on to sell huge and drew huge audience. I for one watched several from that era because of a Springsteen song: The Wrestler, The Crossing, Streets of Philadelphia. All original songs i could not get anywhere else until a compilation was released. I paid for a theater ticket to hear the songs. Streaming and SM have changed all that.
Keep in mind that back then musicians often gave songs to actors or filmmakers out of friendship or collaboration. O'Rourke's Wrestler was his come back movie. Bruce helped him out. Same with his relationship with John Sayles. With younger musicians does this still happen? Maybe. I don't know. It's a good question. But the financiers are now the deal makers for the oldies. Too bad for us, but why would someone like Young or Springsteen sit on $500m off assets that will dwindle in value? Why not cash out before they die?
I'm often surprised at how many younger people listen to the ancient music of my youth. I think there was a lull in recognition, but then all the 60s and 70s stuff made a come back. What happened to the 50s and before? I have no idea. It wasn't just boomer nostalgia.
P.S. The play "Girl From the North Country" used Dylan's music. There was even a cast album. No "Maggie's Farm" though.
Sometimes it just takes one perfectly timed placement for under-30s to give a listen. Just ask Kate Bush (I’m holding my breath for the Dusty Springfield renaissance).
Didn’t that already happen due to Pulp Fiction? Of course that was before TikTok and streaming...
Part of the motivation to buy those books was the fame of the owner(s). The other part was theor recognition that millions would respond to a catchy tune!
Monetization is publishing and licensing. Some of these songs still make pretty good “mail box money”. I didn’t see that kind of value in the catalogs and I’ve worked for many of those acts over the last 40 plus years. We’re hearing more of the chart topper songs from the 70s to the 90s in ads and TV and movies. There is money there just not enough to justify those values.
Labels have always been about rights management. At first it was physical goods like mechanicals and masters. What’s being called “IP” is just the electronic distribution of physical goods we used to buy in stores.
When Bob was inking his sweet, sweet deal, he must've been thinking, "Something is happening here, but you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?"
Well played!
I've been seeing more and more Boomer songs in new streaming series and movies. They are not entirely a bad fit, but the majority are. Example: Apple's "The Last Thing He Told Me," an above average mini series about the disapearance of a rich techie, opens with Springsteen's "Ghost of Tom Joad," and droression era folk song. "Air," the Air Jordan's biopic, closes with "Born in the USA." Both seem to be clear marketing decisions to draw boomers like me. The songs have Nothing to do with the shows. But how long will filmmakers write those checks when the miserable ROI on them become clear? Or... maybe they are good Film investments? I don't see it. I see original songs in films as having greater traction. At least they did in the pre-streaming world.
Maybe. I mean we can all remember original songs for movies that both made a fortune and helped sell the movie. Saturday Night Fever and Grease pretty much made Robert Stigwood.
But I can also think of a zillion great movies where they took songs that were already out there and repurposed them. The Graduate, Easy Rider, Pulp Fiction. Ted has written about how nothing really replaces certain classical music pieces in movies, despite the gradual slow death of that genre.
Whatever the case, it's one helluva a skill deciding what music to use in movies.
If they were smart, the investment funds would sell off the songs individually. To rich fans. What billionaire wouldn't love to say he owns Lay, Lady, Lay or Bridge Over Troubled Water or Heart Of Gold? The artists themselves could even buy back a few sentimental favorites. Or they could auction them off. Or raffle them. "Win a song and collect royalties your whole life!" Get creative!
But what if, choosing a random billionaire, Elon Musk, just bought the eternal rights to “Bridge Over Troubled Water” simply out of spite? And if you didn’t own a hard copy of the song, you are likely never to hear it in public again? Call me strange, but I actually lose sleep over stuff like this.
That is a possibility. But an extremely unlikely possibility. Does Elon Musk have an intense hatred of Paul Simon or that song? 🤣 Even if he did and was willing to spend (likely) millions to stop a song from being played, there are enough hard and digital copies out there that digital copies would flood the internet faster than Elon could play wack-a-mole trying to stop them. And I imagine musicians would cover the song live out of spite also.
It is also not likely they will sell the songs off one by one. It was just a thought I had. Although I am willing to accept a huge fee from the investment funds for using my brilliant idea. 😉🤓
Two thoughts arising form the great article (yes Ted, you did predict it!) and many of the comments. First, while I agree and have agreed with Ted's argument, I don't think the latest sales can be assumed to be conclusive evidence that the assets are not worth (at the present time) the declared fair market value and the market is collapsing now. Every industry is being hit with asset sales when business models based on debt leverage cannot cope with sharply increased interest rates. There are opportunistic deals to be had in any market right now (and horrible sales to be made and endured) because the interest cost of the leveraging loans is unexpectedly enormous. And that drives investors who at one time were happy with a lower return on investment demanding higher returns to account for the inflation causing such interest rate increases. Some ill-prepared management teams get caught in the squeeze.
Second, several ask why the artists are selling their songs (hardly "for a song") when they have so much cash already. Answer: inheritance taxes, increasing income and capital gain taxes, kids with no musical or business talent that will fight and mess up the value of the songs: better to sell the assets and hand them cash on a tax efficient basis for an annuity rather than see the fighting that the beneficiaries of Prince's estate and others engage in for decades. I think I saw commentary on a couple of "portfolios" sold immediately prior to the latest federal income tax rates coming into effect.
at least Tom Waits has never sold out...(!)
Hey watch what you say about El Paso. I’ve commissioned two versions of the Marty Robbins song, as tributes to my former Gunn hoops teammate, who set the Miners record for most games played, was drafted by the Knicks, was all Australia , died jan 28 2023 in Melbourne after dvt.
You beat me to the Marty Robbins comment :)
Kent Lockhart
I am a folk singer, happy as can be, I pick up songs like shells from the sea...
I loved Donovan in his soundtrack of Zefferelli's "Brother Sun, Sister Moon." (Ok, fire me!) I could never listen to him outside of that movie though. Film and music should be an artistic collaboration, with "pressure" To commercialize from the financiers. The decisions seen now to be starting from the financial end. At least with respect to the boomer music. Sad.
A substack piece by Charles Hugh Smith hit my inbox at the same moment as this piece. Charles is discussing the endless popularity of old songs and the vapidity of new material.
https://charleshughsmith.substack.com/p/cultural-stagnation-and-the-stagnation
He was triggered by hearing a 50-year-old rock song as the theme of an ad for Ford trucks. Maybe that's a clue about the destination of these catalogs?
Your karma bit made me smile. Thanks for this; you show me aspects of life I am ignorant about; and you do it with wit and insight.
I played a gig a couple months ago with the bass player of Cameo. He's featured most famously on their song 'Word Up.' I just went to a dinner at a gastropub and they had music playing on the sound system. That song came on and wished I could have been on that recording. It's still being played on TV shows, movie soundtracks, and now in restaurants...yet it came out in the '80s.
One of the great marching band songs of all time . . . sometimes you get lucky just once, but it’s so worth it.
Wall Street be Wall Street
It's the capital glut. Too much money sloshing around at the top and not enough down below to provide investment opportunities. Wall Street is full of harvesters who never realized that one has to plant seed.
Quite simply, why the fuck did or do any of them need more money? The musical versions of George fucking Clooney hawking fucking plastic coffee pellets. Where’s their fucking dignity?
Bill called it. Rock stars for diet coke.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iNUhKgRBZSE
(Note. This contains gratuitous swearing, and without context some may think he’s mocking George’s sexuality. He’s not - watch the full routine which i’m not going to link to.)
As Vespasian put it, "Pecunia non olet."
A lot of good points there . . . two others from the Billboard article are (1) the songs were sold to a sister company that is connected with BlackRock, which is a bit questionable, and (2) though sold for under "fair market value", they were also sold for 25% more than Hipgnosis paid. So maybe not _such_ a bad deal.