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Faith Current's avatar

Starbucks isn't a coffee shop anymore. It's overpriced hipster milkshakes for grownups (with sprinkles!!!) -- infantalized just like everything else in the culture. Actual coffeehouses of the kind we think of in , say, 1950s/60s cafe society in Paris... those would be for, y'know, adults. Can't be havin' that... because adults having serious conversations over serious coffee might think thoughts that would upset the powers-that-be. Better to keep everyone drugged out and brain fogged on sugar and caffeine so we don't come up with any plans to disrupt the excesses of late stage capitalism.

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Alex's avatar
May 6Edited

While the latest crop of drinks is embarrassing, the notion that Starbucks peddaling sugary coffee-adjacent sludge is a new development doesnt line up with the facts. I remember getting cutsey drinks there twenty years ago, and even before that Zoolander made "Orange mocha Frappuccino" into a punchline.

The notion that Starbucks is partaking in a plot by Big Latte to keep Americans docile is ridiculous, and using a popular culture image of a specific scene that ended six decades ago as the template for coffee houses is silly. It's like saying that bars used to nurse talent of great writers like Fitzgerald and Bukowski, but now just keep the proles in a brain fog of alcohol and sugar.

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Mark Tonsetic's avatar

Agreed on the second sentence, except for one point: I suspect they're not targeting grownups, but are aiming to serve as a 'third space' for the pre-teen and teenage crowd. Concoctions like the 'Pink Drink' were -- as 'secret' menu items -- unofficial social media fare before they became named menu items.

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Faith Current's avatar

You might be right, but regardless, it's "grown ups" who are buying them, which is the larger point.

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Tyler Laprade, CFA's avatar

Targeting teens is a means, not an end. The desire is not to focus exclusively on the most fickle demographic, which also happens to be one that naturally ages out every five years. Rather, the purpose is to start the addiction early in order to acquire an entire generation of grownup customers before they’re grown up.

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Rick Olivier's avatar

Exactly. Pre and post classes, Starbucks is full of teen GIRLS, not “serious” people. I blame The Gynocracy. Nothing they can’t ruin!

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Alex's avatar

Is this a joke? If so, masterfully done.

If not, I will just start with noting that being upset that teenaged girls consume products and thinking that it is the byproduct of "The Gynocracy" is insane.

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Rick Olivier's avatar

Yeah. Seriously joking 🙃

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Ann Johnson's avatar

Whew! I was going to post a long diatribe about women being equally picky about their coffee. My DIL is from Italy. Needless to say, we don't frequent many "Italian" Restaurants or Cafes. I doubt she will ever become fully "Americanized" when it comes to food and drink.

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Jim Clinton's avatar

Agreed, except no self-respecting hipster would spend any time in Starbucks.

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YM's avatar

I know quite a few adults who claim to love "coffee" but really just love the overly-sugary milkshakes Starbucks calls coffee.

I feel like the odd man out going into a Starbucks and ordering a plain latte or cappuccino.

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Ann Johnson's avatar

My Son married a lovely woman from Italy. They have 3 "mocha machines" stove-top espresso makers. They pack one if they are going to travel. Every morning, he makes them each a cup of espresso and breakfast. Their routine in the morning is like watching a ballet. He has to use the bigger one or two of them if I am visiting. He is precise in measuring the grounds. It is all muscle memory for him now and he lectures me on grinding the beans properly. I smile knowing I raised him up well.

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Dave MacDougall's avatar

"Instead I’m gonna drink it hot, stinging, and black—the way God intended."

Amen. I've always thought that adding anything to coffee meant your really don't like coffee.

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Barry McWilliams's avatar

Wait, you‘re telling me you dilute your coffee beans with water!?!?

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Dave MacDougall's avatar

I've eaten chocolate coated coffee beans but prefer drinking it. I do like it strong though. Cheers

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Ann Johnson's avatar

Cowboy Coffee. One side of my family actually made their coffee that way. Then filter out the grounds and serve. The trick is having a coarse grind and good filter, usually cheese cloth. If you are patient, most of the grounds will sink to the bottom, so no filtering.

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Michael Tenzer's avatar

Are we ditching salad dressing, ketchup and mustard as well? Asking for a friend 😜

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George Neidorf's avatar

Only in coffee.

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McKinleyRd Creatives's avatar

funny as

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Deep Turning's avatar

Flowing with divine will and purpose

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Owen Kilfeather's avatar

Might also be worth mentioning Starbucks is currently subject of a global boycott.

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BrighterDaze's avatar

Came here for this. I would imagine the BDS movement is at least partially responsible for the decline in earnings.

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Blue Fairy Wren's avatar

It's hugely responsible and a sad oversight on Ted's part to not mention it.

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Deep Turning's avatar

Funny because SB was a huge flop in Israel. Everyone there, Jew and Arab, is used to various Middle Eastern and European coffees and thought of Starbucks already back in the 1990s as Ted thinks of them now.

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Jim Clinton's avatar

Starbucks did more than anyone to make Americans more serious about coffee. I'm sitting in the American equivalent of my local pub, a great place called Tamp & Grind in Alexandria, LA, reading and writing. It probably wouldn't exist except for Starbucks' monetization of coffee culture. I'm grateful for that but hardly grateful enough to drink their mediocre coffee and hobnob with people who think lavender matcha with oatmeal milk belongs in a coffee shop. Also, I blame pumpkin spice for Donald Trump and vice versa.

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Dave MacDougall's avatar

Maybe but I think coffee cultus spread from California. I was out there lot in 1990 and there seemed like a coffee house on every corner. Within a couple of years two great coffee houses opened in the small upstate NY city where I lived. Then Starbucks arrived and managed to clued with a local realtor to push one of them out. I have avoided Starbucks ever since partly because of what they did but really mostly because non-corporate coffee houses ALWAYS do a better job.

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Senor Fix's avatar

I don't know, there were plenty of coffee shops throughout SF prior to Starbucks. North Beach still has quite a few, including my personal heaven Cafe Trieste. My experience is that Starbucks contributed significantly to ruining coffee shops.

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Genevieve Bergez's avatar

Yes, Cafe Trieste! And Mr. Peet’s til of late. It went corporate model too, very disappointing!

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Erdemten's avatar

Went to Peet's a few times in the East Bay. It was preferable to Starbucks (didn't burn its coffee as much), but the atmosphere was much the same. (Better music on the speakers though.)

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Genevieve Bergez's avatar

We used to love Phil’s too. Now their in our grocery store.

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Ken Rosser's avatar

...Cafe Trieste...sigh...

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Dave MacDougall's avatar

I agree. That is exactly is what happened in my hometown.

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Ann Johnson's avatar

I used to live near San Francisco. If you want good coffee, Cafe Trieste was the place to go. That was over 4 decades ago. I lived in Sausalito, which had it's own Cafe Trieste. I don't think they are related. I used to go and just sit, drinking my cappuccino, nibble on a treat, and people watch. Listening to incredible conversations. I was 19 at the time and everything was new and exciting. Sausalito has changed dramatically since then. I refuse to even visit. I prefer MY version.

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Jerry Kennedy's avatar

A trumpian reach I say, caffeine induced no doubt

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Erdemten's avatar

Yes, when I was a baker in a coffee shop in grad school, the owner was asked once if he resented Starbucks, and he said no, they turned people on to coffee beyond Folgers (which is what I still usually drink :) ), and then once they got serious about it, they looked for good stuff like his offerings. He considered at least half his clientele to be scarred Starbucks veterans.

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Rick Olivier's avatar

Jim, you know the Cajuns in Marksville (we’re not allowed further north) and below I-10 drink it waay stronger than Starbucks. We’re the original coffeeholics 😎

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Jim Clinton's avatar

True dat, Rick. Of course, it's not so much that Cajuns aren't allowed north of Marksville, it's just that you break out in hives when the latent cayenne content in the drinking water falls below a certain level...

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Aaron Lane's avatar

Hey Jim & Rick! Wonderful to see other LA citizens in the here. I didn’t think anyone else from down here would read Ted. I’m glad yall have proven me wrong! And for the record…I’ve never heard of a Cajun in Marksville. That line is drawn at the Washington exit on I-49!! (I kid, I kid) 😂

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Rick Olivier's avatar

Yes, there ARE Cajuns in Marksville. Bruce Daigrepont's family is from there (I'm not). I spent much time in Opelousas so I'm very familiar with that exit. Above Marksville no one can understand a word we say, though...

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71 911E's avatar

As I understand things, Trump doesn't drink coffee, he sticks with Diet Coke. But, of course, it's always convenient to blame him for everything.

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Jim Clinton's avatar

It was a joke.

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Rick Olivier's avatar

I got it fyi 😎

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71 911E's avatar

Thanks for letting me know. It's tough to tell on Ted's substack as political comments are rare. Mine are limited to responses to them.

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Joe Donatelli's avatar

I didn’t drink coffee until I had twins. Now I only drink coffee. Now, I am coffee.

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Joe Donatelli's avatar

If you’d like to read about my over-caffeinated family life, feel free to give me a follow at https://joedonatelli.substack.com/

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Rick Waugh's avatar

Their treats have gone south, as well. They’re overpriced, dull, and not very tasty. Just got back from a trip through Norway, Scotland, Ireland and England, and while we didn’t go to a single Starbucks, we went into a lot of pastry shops, and had amazing treats and excellent coffee there. If I’m going to get soaked, it damn well better be worth it.

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JB87's avatar

True fact! I guess about ten years ago they went to a consolidated corporate bakery rather than regional and everything started coming in plastic and tasting like sugar infused wallpaper paste (and no, don't ask me how I know what that tastes like, long story...). I've never been back!

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YM's avatar

I used to love the occasional Starbucks cake pop but the last time I had one it had no taste.

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Blue Fairy Wren's avatar

American coffee has always been terrible and Starbucks is its worst iteration. They tried to open across Australia. Australians tried it and went "what is this shit?". They had stores everywhere and a year later they had almost none. Today I think there are a couple left, I know there's one in Sydney. I don't know who goes there, tourists, probably.

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David Palmer's avatar

Ditto for New Zealand. If you have cafes with good coffee why go to Starbucks?

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McKinleyRd Creatives's avatar

so true Dave

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Ary Monteiro's avatar

Same in Brazil, they're ceasing operations here while more traditional cafés are still going strong. Won't lie I enjoyed an occasional frappuccino, but I treated it as a desert, if I wanted coffee I'd go somewhere else.

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Jay M. Stein's avatar

Starbux [sic] has long resorted to masking the bitter taste of their second-rate brews with multiple pumps of overly sweet, medicinal flavorings. If you want coffee, head elsewhere.

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Grant Marn's avatar

Found myself in Seattle in 1991 on a business trip. I asked a construction worker where I could get a cup of coffee. He suggested a place by Pike Place Market called Starbucks. Never heard of it - he said look for the green mermaid sign across from the Market. I wandered down and eventually found it. The shelves were lined with a huge variety of bags of whole beans with exotic names from far-away places...the place was empty. It smelled amazing. The exuberant and extremely nice barista encouraged me to just try whatever they were brewing that morning because it was - as she put it - "amazing." Gold Coast Blend it turned out.

That began a 33-year love affair with Gold Coast (now ridiculously called Morning Joe, cleansing any historical meaning from the brand). How strong was that immediate love affair? The barista suggested I sign up for their new program - mailing beans to your home (Cleveland for me). Soon, bags of Gold Coast started arriving every two weeks. It couldn't get any better. Before I left, she said she would be thrilled to grind me a bag for the road.

When a Starbucks opened near my home in 1999, I cancelled my mail order bean service. The very next day someone from Seattle left me a voicemail on my answering machine where they said that they were so very sorry to lose one of their very first mail order customers and wanted to make it right. It clearly wasn't scripted. I called back and said - jokingly - "no worries, you've taken over the world. There's a store right by my house now." They said they were so relieved and would let management know. They seemed to actually care.

My mind wanders back to the innocence of 1991 and my mail order bags whenever I go into a Starbucks now. It doesn't smell like coffee these days, and beans are limited and only a few bags grace their shelves. In fact, I can't get Gold Coast whole beans any longer. I have to buy the inferior ground Morning Joe bags at Kroger.

It's a constant reminder of just how much Starbucks has lost its way and no longer cares about coffee or coffee customers. It's an afterthought - a loss leader in some management consultants' slide deck sitting on desks in Seattle where nobody bothers to follow up when a customer goes elsewhere. Coffee now seems like a burden for them to carry - a low margin product that the baristas seem to resent grinding since it takes time and reduces their throughput the consultants said was achievable. How sad that anonymous 1991 barista would be to work at Starbucks today.

Starbucks is also a reminder of something a work colleague told me many years ago about corporations and corporate loyalty. He said "corporations are not your friends or your family - don't forget that. Be professional and do good work, but don't ruin your family life for the company - because they sure hell won't for you."

How right he was. My family or friends would make sure to have some Gold Coast on hand and would start to pour it as soon as they saw me walk in...just like in 1991.

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Lorraine Tilbury's avatar

Thank you for the lovely story of your first-hand experience with the early days of Starbucks and its subsequent decline into corporate blandness.

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Grant Marn's avatar

Lorraine thank you for your kind remarks - I greatly appreciate it. Time often does offer a perspective. A decline into corporate blandness describes this one perfectly! Thanks again.

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Michele Linehan's avatar

I miss the early days of Starbucks. Rarely visit them now. Ethiopian Harrar was a dream...so good!

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Grant Marn's avatar

So with you...those were amazing days.

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Michele Linehan's avatar

Yes, in the beginning. I'm a purist and prefer coffee, not fancy pretend coffee drinks. I think Starbucks strayed too far. I live in a rural area and I have Peet's dark roast, small batch delivered. And we have a great local coffee shop Cove Coffee.

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Paul's avatar

What a cool story!!! I was there too in 1991 although even then I knew that if you went into Starbucks, you were guaranteed of the following: 1) you would get a cup of rich, strong coffee, 2) it would cost you $3.50....maybe it was $2.99 back then. Either way, for a teacher that was way to expensive. Cheaper and smarted to make your own at home for .20c. It was a treat to go there though. Schultz scaled up--and now Starbucks is worldwide. Lets give them some credit though--the food is above average and so is the coffee....still.

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Grant Marn's avatar

You're so right about cost. The mailed bags significantly reduced the cost (along with my little grinder and Braun cone brewer)...I do agree with the Gaffigan bit on the baristas...there's no way I could do that job - too many options for me to remember. It's a complex gig for sure. Thanks so much for taking the time to read my story and comment.

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Jeremy Keim's avatar

When I first saw the Oleato, I exclaimed “why the hell are we putting Olive Oil in coffee (there may have been a few more expletives)?” to which my wife responded, “In a split second, I heard you become an old man.”

I couldn’t disagree. In fact, I’m proud of it.

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Hugh's avatar

Starbucks seems to be a victim of its own success. There are coffee houses everywhere now where I live (Manhattan). I used to go to Starbucks on an almost daily basis until the ones in my neighborhood began turning up the volume of the music--mostly rap and rock--to ear-splitting, headache-inducing volumes. On a couple of occasions I politely asked the baristas to turn down the volume. On one occasion, the barista gave me a cold stare and did nothing. On the other occasion, the barista told me she didn't know how, an obvious lie.

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Rick Waugh's avatar

I believe that the music, both style and volume, is set from a central location now. I asked the same question as you a few years back, and was told they had no control over it in the store. All driven by what corporate felt was the best for marketing.

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Kaleberg's avatar

That's interesting. It sounds exactly like the centralization that nearly killed Barnes & Nobel. People used to bitch about centralized planning in the USSR, but we've got it with our oligopolistic chains in the US. We Americans used to joke about Bread Bakery #35 in Moscow, but how often to we go to a store with just a number, not a name?

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MattieRoss's avatar

Yeah, listening to good music at ear-splitting volumes isn't preferable. Listening to the garbage music SB sources from who-knows-where is unbearable. Maybe they're trying to turn tables and get people to leave more quickly instead of camping out and blogging all day?

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Hugh's avatar

Rick: Maybe the music is centrally planned, but it varies from region to region. I spend weeks at a time visiting my mother, who lives in a small town in Canada, where there's a Starbucks that I visit every day. The music played there is mostly contemporary and classic pop. I told the barista about my problem with the music at New York City Starbucks. She said they don't play rap because small-town customers find the lyrics offensive.

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Ric's avatar

Starbucks (and Peet's) deserve some credit for turning many Americans on to better coffee. Many have not had the pleasure of taking the real thing in the real places as you have. Anyway, three causes for Starbucks' problem; 1) As you mention, priority on selling sugar, whipped cream, and artificial flavors. 2) Waiting in a noisy line behind people ordering those things. 3) Proliferation of alternative coffee shops that don't sell those things and provide better coffee. I somehow hope against hope they somehow signify a wedge into the fight against the lack of seriousness, particularly for coffee.

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Kaleberg's avatar

There's always a line at the Starbucks in Pikes Place Market in Seattle. It's supposed to be the first Starbucks, but the actual first Starbucks was a few blocks away. Still, it's part of a pilgrimage. Luckily, Seattle still has some real coffee houses, some singles, some small chains. Victrola is pretty good and just a a block or two away.

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Jordan J. Andlovec's avatar

Coffee professional here 👋

Thanks for calling this what it is: unserious. But there are a dedicated group of people who have been taking coffee seriously for the last 25 years or so (sometimes called specialty or "third-wave" coffee), and who want to elevate the work of the coffee producer by roasting the coffee so that it highlights the hard work these people do (and for very little reward). Counter Culture, Heart, The Coffee Collective, and Tim Wendelboe are some of those people, and I would highy recommend you look into their work.

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mogabi's avatar

Coffee drinker professional here 👋

Living in Los Angeles, it is an embarrassment of riches for third-wave coffee shops. I try every one I can. My favorite of the bunch is Endorffeine. Jack - the owner who literally makes every cup served (he has no employees except a cashier who doesn’t make the coffee) - makes the best coffee in LA, IMO.

Plus, I make coffee at home. I have two coffee subscriptions (Sey and Moustache Coffee Club) that ship to me the same day they roast. Every morning, I hand grind the beans and brew in an Aeropress (weighing the water and beans to ensure a 16:1 ratio).

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MattieRoss's avatar

My son is a third-wave coffee disciple and has taught me the finer points of making a superior cup of coffee (your post mentioned some of the same steps/equipment he swears by). I wasn't sure about all of it until he made me my first cup...just wow!

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71 911E's avatar

And here my wife's assessment (and mine as well) that I have OCD appears to be but a truly minimal issue, determined by your comment.

Even though I don't drink coffee, I thank you for making me feel all warm and fuzzy.

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J.L.Mc12's avatar

What about James Hoffman?

https://www.youtube.com/@jameshoffmann

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Rich Headland's avatar

This is the way

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Karol Kaczorowski's avatar

Specialty coffee is a great gateway into how coffee can taste differently, fruity, and something beyond just roasted burnt flavor. It is way more expensive even than starbucks, but light roasts of specialty coffee ade through aeropress, drip, kalita, siphon or other tools is a great thing and probably the best coffee currently can be.

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Gary James's avatar

America used to be serious?

I think I must have missed that...

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Scott Burson's avatar

Yeah, that was my thought too. When has American culture not been image-driven?

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JBird4049's avatar

America has always been image-driven. It has been for centuries. But nowadays, it ain’t theater, it’s a clown show.

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B.L.'s avatar

They can’t make coffee, which should be so strong that I could tar a roof with it. Starbucks is dirty water.

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Lisa L's avatar

We once lived on a small coffee farm in the mountains of southwest Tanzania. We grew it, dried it, roasted it, savored it. I can still smell it roasting. Those were the days. And we were surrounded by tea plantations. But that's a story for another day.

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David Yates's avatar

Yes, and I home roast Mlama from the slopes of Kilimanjaro. Brew it in a Moka pot every morning. Order green beans from Green Coffee in Alberta. Still possible, and still cheap and fresh if you do it all yourself 😀 Thanks for the Tanzanian plug!

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