125 Comments

This is probably too much of a black-pilled take for most here, but... looking at this topic through the lens of "industry" and it all makes sense.

These artists are.... brands.

The truth is — especially in their later years — they are little more than mascots for the brand that's been built up around them. There's too much money involved — too many people getting paid — to just let them walk away. Especially at a time when live performances are the only real money-makers. Just having control of their estate really doesn't mean as much as it used to... far fewer people are going to make a living off of that.

Expand full comment

Am I hallucinating , or has the "edit" button been removed?

EDIT: huh.. no edit option on my previous comment for some reason. WTF? "Collapse" is the last link, but on this comment there are 3 dots after collapse, which is where the edit option is... how are some comments rendered without that bit of code in the first place? weird.

Expand full comment

...aaaand now it's gone. Now I can't edit either of my previous comments. :/

It seems you can only edit comments while still logged in to the session you made the comment... once logged out, edit is no longer an option the next time you log in. That seems to be the pattern anyway. Testing it now.

EDIT: Can edit comment. When I log back in, will I be able to edit this edit, or only reply to or delete?

Expand full comment

"When I log back in, will I be able to edit this edit, or only reply to or delete?"

Confirmed. I can only edit my comments while still logged in to the session I made the comment in — once I log back in I can't edit my comment, only delete or reply to it.

@Substack: when and why did that change?

screenshot: https://ibb.co/B69nQdv

Expand full comment

If you subscribe, you'll be able to edit, even in your sleep. But seriously, you think this is hard, try posting a comment on Yahoo news and when someone replies, you'll get the reply in your inbox. Then.......if you try to reply to the reply, Yahoo may or may not send you to the website you posted in, and, if they do, you'll never find your post. I'll go with the inconvenience of having to stay signed in to edit. Anyway, if someone replies to your comment, you'll receive the comment in an email and you can reply and correct your original text, but you knew that, didn't you?

Cheers and remember, we were all put here to suffer, it's good for our character.

Expand full comment

"If you subscribe, you'll be able to edit"

I am subscribed. I could edit everything anytime I wanted just the other day. This is something new.

Expand full comment

It's a joke son, relax.

Expand full comment

It took me a while to realize that a career can be likened to chapters in a book. The final chapters in my long career as a scientist are much different than the beginning and middle chapters. Most time is now spent teaching and mentoring. The best part of this is that these chapters are just as fulfilling if not more than earlier chapters.

Thanks Ted for your thoughtful contribution.

Expand full comment

Love this comment.

Must we be in the spotlight all the time? I say no . . .

Expand full comment

Great timing. I'm no superstar--I barely qualify for the bottom rung of "unknown"--but just yesterday I drafted an email to my 500-ish music newsletter subscribers to say something about how I am back to focusing on prose-writing now and I haven't gigged since last July or written a new tune in ages or even practiced piano much in two seasons, and I probably won't be out there again until...

Then I stopped myself, thinking, "Wait, how many times have I sworn I'm done with music only to show up again a few months or years later? Maybe I should just let the moment pass in silence until I have another show date to announce."

Was still vacillating until I read your piece and decided definitely not to bother saying a word yet. 🤣

Expand full comment

Also--Ted, I didn't realize arthritis kicked you off the piano seat. That couldn't have been easy. I hope you can look back on those early musical days with more gratitude and delight than loss. I've had some hand and wrist injuries that make me wonder about my own long-term relationship with the 88 keys. I have put myself in a state of conscious pre-mourning at times because as with everything else we love, it too shall end one day.

Expand full comment

As it turned out, I was fortunate. I found a recovery path for an affliction that (I had been told) would be with me forever. But decades later, I'm still pain free. Occasionally I feel a twinge of stiffness, but I only need to take an aspirin, nothing stronger—although I'm still cautious about how many hours I spend at the instrument. So it could have been a lot worse for me.

I have a hunch that many musicians have severe pains that they don't talk about—because they fear it might hurt their career. After all, who is going to hire a pianist with hand problems? So the pain is accompanied by the perceived need to suffer in silence. That's such a sad situation.

Expand full comment

That's good to hear re: your own manageable pain--and you're right, musicians are often as bad as professional athletes when it comes to denying their symptoms and abusing pain meds.

We're lucky in Baltimore to have a local hospital that hosts a nationally recognized hand center staffed with specialty OTs & PTs. I have used their services twice in my life and try to avoid needing a third.

To any of your readers who are pianists, I highly recommend Penelope Roskell's book THE COMPLETE PIANIST for a wise technical approach designed to avoid or even heal the usual weaknesses and injuries.

Expand full comment

The piano is a demanding instrument. I know at least two musicians who played other instruments, then took up the piano and had serious injuries. One was a youngster I tutored in high school and well on his way towards a music degree when his wrists gave out. The other played the harpsichord and organ, but didn't treat the piano with proper respect. He could barely use his hands for a year.

Expand full comment

Pianos are dangerous instruments. I've known several musicians who have had their hands nearly destroyed playing them. One was involved in a software startup, but he switched from harpsichord to piano and wound up with carpal tunnel problems. They had to hire a typist for him so he could write code. A young guy I know who was halfway through his music degree decided to learn the piano and had to take a year off and reconsider his musical career. (He's in Nashville doing music, just not playing a piano.) It makes you appreciate the musicians who have long careers playing that instrument.

Expand full comment

I've read that professional athletes suffer greatly when they retire—when they are forced to retire because of aging and injury. I've read a few memoir of Olympic athletes who struggled in their post-retirement years. They didn't become millionaires. Their competitive years were short. And they sacrificed a "normal" childhood and young adulthood for their sport.

Expand full comment

I'm sure that's true. I think the most painful situation of all might be the star high school athlete. I've known some of these, and they had acclaim at age 16 or 17—and for many it was the peak experience of their lives. But it's gone before they can even begin to comprehend it. My high school had several amazing baseball players—one of them became a superstar in the major leagues and even won the Cy Young Award, but the others (who seemed just as talented at the time) never made pros. When I see them at class reunions, I almost want to cry. I'm often glad I picked vocations that have some longevity.

Expand full comment

My Band Director at FSU advised me to "make sure you're successful when you're old–that's when you will need it." He had seen what happens to many young "prodigies," which I tended toward . . .

Expand full comment

Yeah, think of child movie and TV stars. Not a great history.

Expand full comment

Yup. Too much applause too soon! I think that's part of the syndrome . . .

Expand full comment

As I was reading this, I thought of boxers who “retired” many times before they hung up the gloves. I’m sure that had serious repercussions (or concussions).

Expand full comment

One of the worst sporting events I've ever seen is when the ancient Muhammad Ali boxed the prime Larry Holmes. Tragic.

Expand full comment

Floyd Mayweather is smart; he got out at the top, with a perfect record: 50 wins,

0 losses, and a millionaire.

Expand full comment

And his particular boxing style and skills have probably greatly lessened the brain damage.

Expand full comment

I think of John Updike's novels about Rabbit Angstrom, the high school basketball star turned into a miserable man in a failing marriage and business career.

Expand full comment

I work with a lot of people who have career ending injuries, and the problem is that when someone has spent their entire life focused on one particular thing, it is no longer what they do, it is a part of who they are. When they lose that identity and don't have anything to replace it, it's like standing at the crossroads and spinning. They are completely lost until they find a new direction.

Expand full comment

When physical therapy becomes mental health therapy, as well.

Expand full comment

Have you heard Artie Shaw’s interview with Joe Smith, where laments audiences’ insistence on hearing greatest hits, thus his decision to retire from that imprisonment in order to gain creative freedom in private practice? (Billy Joel has voiced similar sentiments.)

Expand full comment

I used to think about those musicians who played the same songs, in the same keys, at the same tempos, with the same arrangements, night after night and year after year, and I thought, no thanks, I'll keep playing jazz. Over the long run I didn't make much money, but I played a lot of music that I loved with wonderful musicians. Now, that I'm past the age of public performance, what I miss is not the spotlight, not the applause, not the money; it's playing with friends.

Expand full comment

"it's playing with friends." You said it Herr Forkenspoon

Expand full comment

This is a great story Ted. As always. I read a lot of them, but as a general avoider of comment sections - for well understood reasons - I hadn't seen this part of your site before and didn't realize it was a kind of ongoing conversation with so many interesting and interested folks. Very cool!

As you may know, I'm an unreasonably determined fan of THE BAND and came in contact with Levon Helm and his circle in 1999 after we covered BESSIE SMITH on our Holiday Romance album for Universal. Rick Danko had just died and Helm had just been diagnosed with cancer. And things got worse from there in every way imaginable. Especially money.

It was at that time, with the help of the indefatigable manager Barbara O'Brien that, out of necessity and to pay the rent, he re-imagined his career as a stay-at-home affair where he simply invited people over to his house to play and listen to music.

By the time he went back to the studio in 2007 to record Dirt Farmer, these Ramble Sessions in his barn in Woodstock, patterned after the medicine shows of his youth, had taken on a mythic and financially viable path forward. Pilgrims visited by the thousands to pay their respects.

Comparing his bandmates who passed in near total obscurity, Helm left a lasting legacy. Today's global Last Waltz tributes would be the most unlikely thing if not for Helm's evangelism and prosperity preaching of the music of The Band.

This month the lead singer, Myles Goodwyn, of my hometown-band-made-big, April Wine announced a retirement at 70 something. The idea is the band (with no original members) will stay on the road without him. We'll see. I'd like to encourage him, and others in their position to consider the Levon Helm strategy. Seems to me it's a good way to extend the fun in a healthy way. But as Levon liked to say, "we ain't in it for our health."

Expand full comment

This brought Leonard Cohen to mind.

He had no desire to tour in his 80's, but he was robbed by a greedy manager. He was a great singer and poet who deserved better.

Expand full comment

Yes, Cohen's situation is lamentable. There need to be greater protections in place for musicians, but who's going to champion that fight with parliament. All the big money in music are the leeches who feed off the musicians, so it's not likely to happen.

Expand full comment

Bill Withers had it about right. He had a career in the Air Force before becoming popular at the age of 32, had a decade recording and performing then left it alone. I'm sure he's done well off the royalties rather than have to sing ' Lean on Me' every night.

Expand full comment

I saw the Lady Gaga/Tony Bennett performance. It just confirmed my belief that, even in his diminished state, he is a much greater talent than she'll ever be. Take away the costumes, lighting, and unending hype, and what have you got? Stefania Germinotti, a fair-to-middling singer whose reach never comes anywhere near her grasp. They say that Chopin in his last days had to be carried on stage, but as soon as his hands touched the keys, he could play. I always think of Leonard Warren, collapsing on stage in "La Forza del Destino" after singing the words "Morir...tremenda cosa". Opera singers in particular seem to have erratic judgment about when to quit. Beverly Sills did it right; on the other hand, Cornel MacNeil kept singing (and the Met kept casting him) when he was obviously well past his prime. I think Maria Callas kept singing because (1) her fans would cheer for her regardless of how she actually sounded, and (2) she just didn't know what else to do after Onassis dropped her. Big difference between "This is what I do" and "This is who I am".

Expand full comment

Interesting piece. Reading it I came up with a couple reasons why performers might (seem to) feign retiring:

-They change their minds. Maybe an artist thinks that they're washed, can't do this anymore, they've had enough, it's no longer worth it, they want to spend their time enjoying their lives and riches offstage, etc. and announces the end, they change their mind even a short while later. The burden of being an active artist is lifted with said announcement and they get another wind in their sails, the muse returns ... and they find themselves walking back onstage or back into the studio. As I'm sure you're aware, artistry can be a funny thing like that. And provided they're still physically capable of making it through shows, there will always be the temptation to be (put) on stage regardless of how diminished a presence they might be.

-They need the money performing brings. The money doesn't last like they thought it would, whether through malice, overspending or some other issues. When my parents saw Don Henley a decade ago, they noted he thanked the crowd for paying for one of his children's college tuition. Dick Dale toured relentlessly until death to afford the medicine and medical supplies he needed, as many people noted after he passed away. While I fully agree that nobody should be active well into their retirement years out of fiscal need, the music industry's non-performance revenue streams are frequently incapable of providing retirement-aged musicians adequate support.

-False announcements of retirement drive interest in that 'final' tour or release. FOMO is a hell of a feeling. Even for an artist that seemingly has years if not decades of creative output still to come like Justin Bieber or Nicki Minaj (independent of the quality of said work or our perception of it), the declaration that this is the end can drive up interest in said shows, even if it's highly unlikely they are truly hanging it up soon. You wouldn't want to be the fan who missed out on seeing them because you thought they were bullshitting you about quitting, would you? Better see them now while you can, just to be sure! (Or maybe they're just being dramatic for attention.)

Especially coming out of pandemic-related shutdowns, I've found feelings of FOMO and knowing this could very well be the end of a legacy artist's career driving some of my concert going decision-making, having seen how fickle the live performance industry can be and how shockingly quickly many of the stars wind up 6 feet under. As eternal as folks like Iggy Pop, Mick Jagger, Bruce Springsteen etc. may seem, they won't be around forever, and their contemporaries and fellow players are dropping like flies. I'm not expecting Iggy to be the same bruiser he was in the 70s when I see him perform in a few weeks ... but I'd still like to see him before he's gone forever like Bowie.

Expand full comment

There are multiple reasons why a person may choose to continue performing in their later years. I suspect that some are forced to continue due to finances. The Monty Python troupe had to return to the stage to recoup monetary losses due to legal entanglements. I used to have a perception that being or having been famous meant that you were rich. Permanently so.

This is flawed logic. Showbiz does not provide the same safety nets that an average working person may have available, pension or savings plans, insurance, and reasonable associates who are there to warn against unhealthy financial activity. I expect to hear changes in voices, and in performance skills as they (we) grow older. I cringe when I hear some of singers who voices are well beyond their golden years and yet the performer insists on pushing forward, with no reasonable end in sight.

I wish for them to have an opportunity to take a graceful bow and exit stage left. But, that doesn't happen. There are several acts that continue to push forward as tribute acts that feel more like exploitation than performance. They leave me with a sense that I have just watched a side show performer bite the head off a chicken, rather than a loving tribute to the memories of deceased band members.

And now, I am thoroughly discouraged in a system that took so much, but gave so little.

Expand full comment

Your column led me to think about Paul McCartney, one of my music idols since 1964, when I was eight years old. His voice is gone. And none of us seem to care when he performs. That said, it is getting harder (and quite expensive) to watch. Maybe he should just talk the songs...like William Shatner.

I love the elderly jazz musicians in Cincinnati. Well into their 70s, playing purely for the love of communicating with a tiny neighborhood audience. They are a part of the city's history. Whoops, I hear the Joni Mitchell lyrics coming up --- "you don't know what you got until it gone."

There's no reference to retirement in the Bible. The same goes for jazz.

Expand full comment

Yes. At 76 I am one of the youngest in one band that I play with and we all want to play.

Expand full comment

Robert Palmer’s liner notes for what would prove to be his final studio album DRIVE conclude thusly:

“It’s the first record I’ve made which I play for my own pleasure and don’t think to myself ‘Oh no...if only I’d done this or that ....’

It’s finished.“

He died within the year and when I heard, I recalled that quote. I think he was saying - wittingly or not - he was done.

Expand full comment

such a fascinating essay, I think it could apply to lots of careers, but especially those in the public spotlight. Its strange how we feel cheated when a star retires, or changes career. I think we get upset when anyone does it too though. A person changes so much, but as humans, we often don't like it when a person becomes something other than the image we had of them. Thank you for writing this, its made me think a lot which is always the best ❤️

Expand full comment

Do we feel cheated? There are diminishing returns, for the audience, for the musician. Modanna was a good example. She stopped being interesting and fresh a few decades ago. It's not difficult to imagine her alternative legacy in male dominated industry if only she'd found another purpose besides being a parody of her better and more creative self. Of course, not all musicians need to bounce off early, that would be silly. And then there are the famed, and the unrecognized, who continue working without the need for the public gaze. They're the ones who continue for the pleasure of it, they don't need or want our constant attention.

Expand full comment

I was one of those weird kids who was into jazz when all my friends were listening to the Beatles, et al. (I rarely had company when I went to hear someone play.) My favorite was Herbie Hancock. I snuck into several bars to hear him play. He was obviously a very angry and unhappy man, but his music was extraordinary. When I got to know him more personally a few years later, he was playing a different, more commercial kind of jazz. The music disappointed me, but he had become a happy and (by musician standards) wealthy man. I don't know what to make of all that.

Expand full comment

Fame and money can allow you to do the things you couldn't do before the fame and money. Hancock was well known among Jazz listeners only. After Headhunters, everybody knew who he was and that's a hard drug to quit. He now has the choice of what he wants to do and still plays straight ahead Jazz and anything else he feels like doing. He quit the drug and kept the high.

Expand full comment

Art, and performance, requires courage, and comes with no guarantees of success. Musicians, as artists, should know if what they are attempting to produce is something of artistic value, and be both responsible to be reaching for that, and be granted the freedom to take whatever chances are necessary in the attempt. And as humans, doing the most humanizing thing we are capable of, be granted as much mercy and forgiveness as necessary should they fall short. And we should all know that more often than not, the beauty revealed in imperfection is worth the flaws woven in the cloth.

Amen?

Expand full comment

Musicians (at least the good'uns) 'r national treasures an' I like all yer suggestions! (The unions--just like they do fer actors in Hollyweird--could offer nice housing fer them that need it an' include a decent on-site stage with open-to-public ticket options an' a handy roster of studio musicians in " the area" happy to support the old timers.... mebbe in Nashvillie, Woodstock, Austin, or even L.A.?)...

Disagree with ya on Tony B--the man could be SLEEPIN' soundly and he'd outshine the likes of twitchy witchy Lady Caca (however highly she may regard 'im...) Due to bein' born a little too late ta see some've the greats "in their prime," I'm MORE'n grateful to have seen 'im in their sunset years--Peggy, Rosie, Mel (Tormé), an' even ol' Blue Eyes (his last concert in Joisey).

My gran'pa played with Les Brown's band (with Doris Day!) an' some other-knowns (he did backup for Kate Smith!!!!--whom he fondly called a "big lady with a big voice!") an' one of his greatest joys 'til the end was pullin' out his clarinet n' tenor sax and playin' along to recordin's of the tunes he knew n' loved.... in his heart, he never retired!

Expand full comment