Following the hippies, it is arguable that punk was a continuation of counterculture (without the “the”). To some degree, it may still be although somewhat difficult to discern because so much of it is truly underground and, just as the hippies, has to some extent been coopted by fashionability. And I remember long ago saying punk would not be exploited by fashion interests because it was so extreme. I was wrong. However, it has had a surprisingly long half-life as a vision of how much change is needed.
From my personal point of view and participation, following my relatively early rejection of punk style although not philosophy, I believed that the next step of counterculture was the so-called world music or world beat movement of the early ‘80s. The thinking was to embrace of the core concept of the Whole Earth idea and extend it to the cultural realm of music. We would hear and dance to the contemporary music of cultures around the world and develop a deeper understanding of their societies, cultures and politics as well as to some extent raise an early flag for the movement against colonialism and imperialism. The use of various media techniques developed by the punks was key. I'm thinking here of independent recording and distribution, cassette culture, fanzines, and generally get on and do it yourself. Depending on your viewpoint and thinking about time scales, it was either an outstanding success that continues to reverberate or a rather squalid rip-off of other cultures. I’m inclined to the former, quite strongly in fact, and only note that much of the music from non-American or European sources seems to have become more influenced by the West than being able to stand on its own stylistic feet. I don’t think the game is over.
However, what I also saw up close and personal in the early ‘80s was the emergence of digital culture from some of the stalwarts of ‘60s counterculture. Surely, you know that I refer to Stewart Brand (sometime publisher of Gregory Bateson and definite enthusiast for his concepts), his cohorts from Whole Earth days, some of them anyway, and such figures as Kevin Kelly, first editor of Wired, and Howard Rheingold, general gadfly. Undoubtedly, the long-term implications of Moore’s Law were not entirely appreciated - and perhaps are still only just coming into view. The story has essentially been told any number of times and has at least semi-legendary status. I was always very ambivalent about computers, partially because I saw that they tended to make those “into” them rather monomaniacal, holding themselves separate and superior to those who had not seen the light - and, also because I liked the “real” world, the physical and social and sweaty and uncertain relationships with other humans and the ways we chose to have fun in that real world. You know, sex ‘n’ drugs ‘n’ rock-and-roll.
On the other hand, what I also remember of those early days of techy digital culture was an intense commitment to how we would make everything better with these new tools. We’d be able to combine words, graphics, music with hyperlinks and all in one package. Education and art museums and entertainment would all explode with new and exciting forms of media. Well, we’ve seen what has come to pass. I hesitant to make much of a value judgement beyond it was over-hyped and a lot of the results have been disappointing.
However, another interpretation that I think is supported by some of what I saw is that this dawning brand new day also had something of an idea of replacing the old power structure. It was a bottom-up process of developing these new technologies. Obviously, that did not last for long and was pretty naive anyway, both about human nature and the role of corporations. Soon enough, there was a lot of money being made and sloshing about and plenty of hands trying to grab the cash. A decade or so later, social media came on the scene. Just like the early days of bulletin boards and conferencing systems such as the WELL, there was much jubilation about how now the people could talk directly to one another without regard to the man. Once again we’ve seen how that has worked, although there are some noticeable indications (as Ted himself has pointed out) that the wheel is turning once again. We’ll see.
When it comes to reviving a counterculture, I’ll admit to being a bit flummoxed. It seems that the colt has left the barn, so what’s the point of locking the door? Our consumerist, profligate society appears to want to burn the whole thing down. A viable counterculture has to whole heartedly reject that, not just play around with head dresses, drugs, and whacky behaviour. Perhaps those concentrating on the climate change issue, its many issues really, constitute such a thing - but we’re back to where the power lies, who can use it and what for. As Ted said, we fooled ourselves the first time. I believe we need very deep, radical, and innovative thinking on a wide scale not to make the same mistakes. I’m not sure I see the pre-conditions at this time necessary for such a development much as I wish for it and attempt to live my personal life in accordance with such a goal. I hope I’m wrong once again.
Hi Jonathan. You make some very important points. Brand went off on this one forking path of the appropriate tech movement and hunkered down on the idea of the personal computer as a tool for personal liberation. As the computer achieved ascendancy, and as the Regan/Thatcher era rolled on, the values of the alternative tech movement exemplified by the early Whole Earth Catalog were abandoned. This is an area ripe for revival, especially with regards to the interconnected crisis we face.
I think the reason the counterculture of the past was successful in the way it was, hippies and punks alike, was because the way it was distributed through analog culture: you had the alt-weeklies, the mimeographed and photocopied 'zines, the cassette distribution networks, shows in basements and underground venues that you had to read the zines and alt-weeklies or no someone to find out about. Or you had to listen to community and college radio to learn about shows and get the announcement. Then you went to those shows and met people. The one advantage of punk or alternative fashion in general was when you saw someone, there were certain signifiers that they showed and it could be a start of a conversation between strangers. While the punk fashion doesn't look as good on the aging punks, much of the underpinning DIY philosophy behind it has indeed aged well.
One thing that would also help a new counterculture is if it wasn't tied to drugs in the same way the hippie movement was with "mind expanding" hallucinogens, or to alcohol, speed and opiate abuse the way the nihilistic end of the punk movement was. I'm not saying everyone needs to go straight edge ala Minor Threat and Fugazi ... but look at what Ian Mackaye was able to accomplish with the whole culture around his label Dischord... because he wasn't enslaved to those drugs.
The drug use led to a lot of the problems within both hippiedom and punk. Especially with the hippies, and the known CIA involvement in promulgating LSD, it led to a lot of manipulation. I think for a current revival of a counterculture we can also look to the transcendentalists, especially those of us here in America. The stoic revival is ala Ryan Holiday is also telling. It's hard to be controlled when you don't share the same materialist values as the rest of the culture. The romantics, dadaists, surrealists and situationists have a lot to teach us...
Generally, I agree with all your points and would enjoy old-fashioned in-person conversation to tweezer out the finer points and hold them up for closer examination. For now, I’ll stick to the subject of drug use. Firstly, the desire to be “out of it” is older than humanity and is also widespread in human societies. Secondly, “out of it” is a bit derogatory in many cases such as ritual and ceremonial uses when it might be more correct to say ”into it with extraordinary powers of perception.” Thirdly, if I were to pin the use of drugs on “our” counterculture, I would give the initiating credit to the Beats. And earlier forms of Bohemian society were also well known for their use of intoxicants. And those ancient Greeks! Those fumes at Delphi, baby, really something else! Fourthly, as with the CIA and LSD, much drug use can be traced back to government issue. For example, amphetamines given to soldiers in WWII. Carried through into the civilian world of the 1950s, it’s a safe bet. Fifthly, it is widely thought that government or its handmaidens the Mafia flooded the Haight-Ashbury with heroin in 1968 in order to break the hippie movement. And the CIA are well known for facilitating the cocaine trade in the 1980s. Sixthly, a survival tactic that should be taught widely is not to avoid all drug use, but don’t use whatever it is more than one day in a row, and if you really enjoy it, don’t ever do it more than once! Seventh, I’m enjoying my cup of coffee and ignoring that last piece of advice. And, I’ll do the same with a beer at the other end of the day. Now, where did my security clearance go? And why are there armed men wearing black at my door?
Good points, and well said. I'd enjoy an in person conversation on these as well.
Your point about the desire to be "out of it" being very old is true. Kim Stanley Robinson painted a great picture of a Neolithic party atmosphere with people high on mugwort and other herbs in his excellent book "Shaman."
I'm no puritan, though coffee is my drug of choice these days. You're quite right about the Beats and of course, the initiates of the Mysteries with their mysterious soma, and the oracle of Delphi high on the fumes of rotting python. The Bohemians of the elder days had their opium, hashish and absinthe. It seemed to work for Rimbaud. Until he had to become a gun runner anyway.
I guess the points you mention about the military introduction of meth, the nudging of LSD use by CIA, the same introduction of it to Haight Ashbury to break up the movement (as well as Operation CHAOS), and all the business between the CIA and central America is one of the reasons to have some skepticism about a counterculture with such a drug focus.
That was one of the reasons I brought up the Stoics... as Ancient Rome was doing its swirl around the drain, the Stoics stood apart from the decadence of the elite. They couldn't be bullied or bought with sex and drugs. When their is potentail powerful opposition to a counterculture not having all the additiction issues within a movement as an achilles heel would be a bonus.
You are well informed! Thank you for the detail of “the rotting python.” I’m going to call my dealer and see if there’s any about. Perhaps I’ll check the dark web if I can ever figure out how to get on it. Personal dealers are so passé. I suspect I’ll try it just the once. Whether that is because I enjoy it too much or because I get so revolted - perhaps a bad batch? - is as yet unknown.
Dealer is all out of rotting python but says there’ll be more in a week or two. Depending on how warm it is outside. Apparently, it’s not something to do in one’s kitchen like cooking crack.
Not going to argue with any of that ‘cos it’s pretty much what happened. I was simply trying to characterize the inflection point from countercultural enthusiasm for digital tech to “software eating the world.” As I recall, possibly accurately, I personally became disenchanted with the tech world in the mid ‘90s long before most of those techniques were introduced. There were, at the time, a number of books raising the relevant questions. I have a shelf of them, or rather a box full ‘cos I moved and have a lack of shelf room. Anyway, they influenced my thinking although my personal revelation was along the lines of hearing some gushing about screen resolutions and the thought arising in my head, “Who cares when reality has infinite resolution?” Right at the end of the ‘90s I went to work for a real-world bookshop that was taking a vocal stance against the corporation that had appropriated the name of the mighty river. Believe you me, that wasn’t much fun either. I was fired for expressing my opinion of management inadequacies too loudly. Just about the story of my life. Oh, well! I will admit that over the past quarter century my opinions of that riverine corporation have fluctuated. At this time, it seems almost quaint, a junior behemoth among some real giants. That’s probably an overly romantic view. I find it frustrating to use, although almost unavoidable. Cory Doctorow captured a lot with his enshittification concept!
One insight I got from Bateson that is very applicable to the modern world is (in my own words) is it is difficult to be much saner individually than the collective sanity level of your social environment.
it is worth saying that Bateson is not easy to read. He is best approached through the stories and metaphors he threw off. For instance, he thought Alcoholics Anonymous was interesting because it drove the drunk to a higher level in order to solve his problems. The idea at the time was that one stopped being an alcoholic by strengthening one's will to stop drinking; the problem was that one great solution to strengthening one's will was to have another drink. AA required (requires) that one admit one is an alcoholic, thus demoting one's own efforts, and to turn to a higher power for faith, strength and direction(the higher level).
Another of Bateson's images was of the tightrope walker Blondin crossing high over Niagara Falls with the help of a balancing stick (long, horizontal). If an imposed rule was to ensure that the balancing stick always remains horizontal, the result in any wind would drive the tightrope walker to sway and gyrate, and finally fall as he fails to maintain the stick horizontally, as the overall system (walker-stick-environment) goes quite mad. Bateson used this to argue that if we try and solve a system for one thing (horizontal balance) it can go berserk in trying to compensate or respond to the single minded purpose (Blake appears here). The best examples of this crazed system were ecosystems like the cod fisheries (solving for cod drives the rest of the ecosystem mad); and more directly (in our case) trying to control - solve - the earth for the benefit of one species (us). Thus the earth is in the process of being driven insane (climate change, etc.). Steps to an Ecology of Mind is the diagnostic tool of the contemporary earth situation (as Ted insinuates).
I think Bateson admired AA because he thought of it as a perfect cybernetic system: you start by admitting that you lost the battle, that you’ve surrendered, and build from there. And you start by accepting the reality of a “higher power,” which - contrary to a lot of opinions I’ve heard or read - is not specifically Christian. It’s just a force greater than yourself. AA doesn’t drive the participating alcoholic to a higher level. It establishes the reality of a power greater than oneself, which puts everything in a different light.
In other words, not a story or a metaphor or an image but a practice that actually works and that can only happen within a community of people who are also struggling.
I read the book many years ago and it really affected me. I think of that particular essay a lot because AA saved my best friend’s life.
I’ve written about Bateson very much in the same way you do in your article (in Catalan, so I doubt there’s any cross pollination here). His insights, curiosity and humor are always a good guide to go by.
And I believe that his fundamental search for “the pattern that connects” everything, basically an aesthetic search (in the deep, literal sense) is now more necessary than ever in the context of the multiple catastrophes we are immersed in.
I like to link Bateson’s attempt to comprehend reality as a whole with the notion of ‘resonance’ developed recently by German sociologist/philosopher Hartmut Rosa. I think their connection marks a way forward to remediate our relationship with the world.
For those who have not yet read “Steps to an Ecology of Mind”, Bateson’s “Mind and Nature” introduces his thinking slightly more concisely. After that, it’s easy to take on “Steps …”.
Additionally, David Lipset’s “Gregory Bateson: The Legacy of a Scientist” is very helpful.
""in the aftermath of the protests and love-ins, I firmly believed that the outsiders had triumphed. We had stopped the war, overcome the censorship, and defeated the system—it would never recover. (Ah, how naive I was.)""
Indeed. Nearly every single one of those people who took part in the protests and love ins of the 1960's turned around and supported "the system", censorship, big government and big pharma during the COVID debacle. The hippy boomers turned into the establishment that they hated so very much and protested against. And worst of all, they saw no irony in what they did. At every possible juncture they threw their support behind Pfizer, big government and big tech to quash scientific inquiry into questions about lockdowns, masking and safer alternatives to vaccines. If their younger self could see what they turned into they would be ashamed
The hippies love of big govt and vaccines is merely emblematic of the observation that they have become the lovers of authority that they professed to hate in their youth. They are now the authoritarians that they once protested. They are squares that they once mercilessly mocked.
Sorry, but I think uninformed generational politics is the problem. Possibly, there is no solution. However, it is important to note that a very small minority of “boomers,” to use a revolting term, were hippies in any way, shape, or form. The counterculture was exactly that, counter to what was going on and most people, young or not, are never counter to most of what’s going on. That is why it’s going on, albeit manipulated by those with power.
When I lived thru the high school/hippie overlap years, I noticed that among alla the cohort of my (pretty large) high school there were very few hippie-like kids, and very few obviously radical right kids (there were some, even in upscale coastal California), and a vast majority who were just plodding along. My subsequent observations suggest that what we were like in high school is pretty much what we have been like ever since.
Your argument relies on flogging a concept - “hippies”- that seems like an anachronism. Since it reached its zenith almost 60 years ago you should provide an update so readers have some idea who you’re actually on about. Most of the original bunch timed-out one way or another long ago. But certain trivial figments have persisted and colored thinking about the identity of this mysterious group. I bring it up because, like Ted Gioia, I was a bit too young to participate in the first wave but remember when it was big news. My conservative parents were definitely not interested. But many years later a guy informed me that my 2003 VW camper van was a hippie ride. That it bore no resemblance to the old 60s-70s VW vans apparently made no difference to his judgment call. It was VW van, so therefore it qualified. But I think the clincher was the California license plate - incriminating evidence from a state with 35,000,000 people.
There is a common and erroneous view that all boomers were hippies or sympathized with the counter-culture. This is simply not true. Fingerpointing and breast beating are useless exercises in thinking about how to move forward.
I respectfully recommend you include Seymour Papert in your reading. For full-disclosure, I worked with Papert for 20 years and am the curator of his unofficial archives at dailypapert.com. That said, he was a profoundly moral, liberal, creative, intellectual deeply rooted in science and social justice who is considered the father of educational computing. With each passing day, I become more convinced that he was one of the most prescient and wise thinkers of the past century. If you were to read one book by Dr. Papert, my choice would be The Children's Machine. https://amzn.to/41E9AiG
I look forward to digging into Seymour Papert and commend you for your curation and dedication. I was going to recommend as a balance to Bateson's runaway train of scientific and experimental positivism and as a complement to Bateson's latent empiricism Neil Postman's less grand works, at the top of the list AMUSING OURSELVES TO DEATH:
"Surely America had now learned the futility of promoting never-ending military campaigns in remote parts of the world. It was just as obvious that crass materialism and status-seeking via possessions had been discredited. Even more, power and money had been turned into jokes and talismans of shallowness — making room for other priorities, more experiential and principled, to come to the forefront.
I was certain that freedom of expression would never again succumb to the censorship and witch hunts of the 1950s. By the same token, we were too smart to continue polluting our environment and destroying our ecosystem. And who wanted to turn back the clock and give up hard-won gains in civil liberties, due process, equality, limitations on government surveillance, restraints on police brutality, and dozens of other areas of tangible progress?
Yet I now see that I was pretty much wrong on all counts.
I’d thought the counterculture had won the battle, but that was all a mirage. Peace and nonviolence didn’t prevail. Respect and tolerance didn’t become second nature. Crass materialism did not retreat—in fact, it didn’t budge an inch."
If the Establishment is good at nothing else, it is very good at determining whom to co-opt, whom to buy off, whom to neutralize, whom to ignore.
As part of the 60s counterculture, many of us grew too comfortable and "dropped out," leaving the task of protest and countering to the next generation. Now nearing or already our 80s, we again feel the urge to resist and speak out. But is it too late?
Sure wish I could agree more wholeheartedly. I suggest reading the “Homeland” book by Richard Beck that I recommended elsewhere in this topic to grok the difficulties facing us today when it comes to standing up to The Man. Sorry for the cliches.
No point in giving up. The Man is likely weaker than he looks, and weaker than he claims. Stale ideas, lies, corrupt people. The power structure wants submission and acquiescence, but it may not keep getting it,
I don't see ANYBODY doing any protests of any note, but certainly it was mostly young people protesting the US/You Know Who's genocide in Gaza on US college campuses (world-wide too). The crackdown was merciless, swift, cruel, stupid, and irrational. But there it was, and I don't think we've the end of it. Not even close.
Sorry Ted, don’t buy it. Stanford may be a worthy Alma mater but what Bateson did there with LSD was evil. You don’t mention that he was part of the OSS (a CIA precursor). Those dolphins you mentioned died from LSD injections. Ken Kesey and Alan Ginsberg were ruined because of their little experiments. MK-Ultra, Cybernetics, counter culture, Stewart Brand, the Esalen Institute, sexual perversions — all part of the same problem. Thanks to your article I discovered more and am not amused.
OMG does Gregory Bateson matter!! I’m in Germany, just saw this NL from Ted; it’s way too late for me to read it (after midnight) but just had to chime in. One of my most important influences! Now to bed; will read in the morning.
I, too, was obsessed with Bateson in the early 70's. Somehow one thing that has stuck with me is his insistence that the map is not the territory. I still see the two confused way too often. (edited for missed word)
Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
1 Timothy 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
The ancient articles covered Bateson's dilemma: how to respond to an 'enlightened' content delivery system claiming to answer really simple questions that humans conjure.
Following the hippies, it is arguable that punk was a continuation of counterculture (without the “the”). To some degree, it may still be although somewhat difficult to discern because so much of it is truly underground and, just as the hippies, has to some extent been coopted by fashionability. And I remember long ago saying punk would not be exploited by fashion interests because it was so extreme. I was wrong. However, it has had a surprisingly long half-life as a vision of how much change is needed.
From my personal point of view and participation, following my relatively early rejection of punk style although not philosophy, I believed that the next step of counterculture was the so-called world music or world beat movement of the early ‘80s. The thinking was to embrace of the core concept of the Whole Earth idea and extend it to the cultural realm of music. We would hear and dance to the contemporary music of cultures around the world and develop a deeper understanding of their societies, cultures and politics as well as to some extent raise an early flag for the movement against colonialism and imperialism. The use of various media techniques developed by the punks was key. I'm thinking here of independent recording and distribution, cassette culture, fanzines, and generally get on and do it yourself. Depending on your viewpoint and thinking about time scales, it was either an outstanding success that continues to reverberate or a rather squalid rip-off of other cultures. I’m inclined to the former, quite strongly in fact, and only note that much of the music from non-American or European sources seems to have become more influenced by the West than being able to stand on its own stylistic feet. I don’t think the game is over.
However, what I also saw up close and personal in the early ‘80s was the emergence of digital culture from some of the stalwarts of ‘60s counterculture. Surely, you know that I refer to Stewart Brand (sometime publisher of Gregory Bateson and definite enthusiast for his concepts), his cohorts from Whole Earth days, some of them anyway, and such figures as Kevin Kelly, first editor of Wired, and Howard Rheingold, general gadfly. Undoubtedly, the long-term implications of Moore’s Law were not entirely appreciated - and perhaps are still only just coming into view. The story has essentially been told any number of times and has at least semi-legendary status. I was always very ambivalent about computers, partially because I saw that they tended to make those “into” them rather monomaniacal, holding themselves separate and superior to those who had not seen the light - and, also because I liked the “real” world, the physical and social and sweaty and uncertain relationships with other humans and the ways we chose to have fun in that real world. You know, sex ‘n’ drugs ‘n’ rock-and-roll.
On the other hand, what I also remember of those early days of techy digital culture was an intense commitment to how we would make everything better with these new tools. We’d be able to combine words, graphics, music with hyperlinks and all in one package. Education and art museums and entertainment would all explode with new and exciting forms of media. Well, we’ve seen what has come to pass. I hesitant to make much of a value judgement beyond it was over-hyped and a lot of the results have been disappointing.
However, another interpretation that I think is supported by some of what I saw is that this dawning brand new day also had something of an idea of replacing the old power structure. It was a bottom-up process of developing these new technologies. Obviously, that did not last for long and was pretty naive anyway, both about human nature and the role of corporations. Soon enough, there was a lot of money being made and sloshing about and plenty of hands trying to grab the cash. A decade or so later, social media came on the scene. Just like the early days of bulletin boards and conferencing systems such as the WELL, there was much jubilation about how now the people could talk directly to one another without regard to the man. Once again we’ve seen how that has worked, although there are some noticeable indications (as Ted himself has pointed out) that the wheel is turning once again. We’ll see.
When it comes to reviving a counterculture, I’ll admit to being a bit flummoxed. It seems that the colt has left the barn, so what’s the point of locking the door? Our consumerist, profligate society appears to want to burn the whole thing down. A viable counterculture has to whole heartedly reject that, not just play around with head dresses, drugs, and whacky behaviour. Perhaps those concentrating on the climate change issue, its many issues really, constitute such a thing - but we’re back to where the power lies, who can use it and what for. As Ted said, we fooled ourselves the first time. I believe we need very deep, radical, and innovative thinking on a wide scale not to make the same mistakes. I’m not sure I see the pre-conditions at this time necessary for such a development much as I wish for it and attempt to live my personal life in accordance with such a goal. I hope I’m wrong once again.
Hi Jonathan. You make some very important points. Brand went off on this one forking path of the appropriate tech movement and hunkered down on the idea of the personal computer as a tool for personal liberation. As the computer achieved ascendancy, and as the Regan/Thatcher era rolled on, the values of the alternative tech movement exemplified by the early Whole Earth Catalog were abandoned. This is an area ripe for revival, especially with regards to the interconnected crisis we face.
I think the reason the counterculture of the past was successful in the way it was, hippies and punks alike, was because the way it was distributed through analog culture: you had the alt-weeklies, the mimeographed and photocopied 'zines, the cassette distribution networks, shows in basements and underground venues that you had to read the zines and alt-weeklies or no someone to find out about. Or you had to listen to community and college radio to learn about shows and get the announcement. Then you went to those shows and met people. The one advantage of punk or alternative fashion in general was when you saw someone, there were certain signifiers that they showed and it could be a start of a conversation between strangers. While the punk fashion doesn't look as good on the aging punks, much of the underpinning DIY philosophy behind it has indeed aged well.
One thing that would also help a new counterculture is if it wasn't tied to drugs in the same way the hippie movement was with "mind expanding" hallucinogens, or to alcohol, speed and opiate abuse the way the nihilistic end of the punk movement was. I'm not saying everyone needs to go straight edge ala Minor Threat and Fugazi ... but look at what Ian Mackaye was able to accomplish with the whole culture around his label Dischord... because he wasn't enslaved to those drugs.
The drug use led to a lot of the problems within both hippiedom and punk. Especially with the hippies, and the known CIA involvement in promulgating LSD, it led to a lot of manipulation. I think for a current revival of a counterculture we can also look to the transcendentalists, especially those of us here in America. The stoic revival is ala Ryan Holiday is also telling. It's hard to be controlled when you don't share the same materialist values as the rest of the culture. The romantics, dadaists, surrealists and situationists have a lot to teach us...
Generally, I agree with all your points and would enjoy old-fashioned in-person conversation to tweezer out the finer points and hold them up for closer examination. For now, I’ll stick to the subject of drug use. Firstly, the desire to be “out of it” is older than humanity and is also widespread in human societies. Secondly, “out of it” is a bit derogatory in many cases such as ritual and ceremonial uses when it might be more correct to say ”into it with extraordinary powers of perception.” Thirdly, if I were to pin the use of drugs on “our” counterculture, I would give the initiating credit to the Beats. And earlier forms of Bohemian society were also well known for their use of intoxicants. And those ancient Greeks! Those fumes at Delphi, baby, really something else! Fourthly, as with the CIA and LSD, much drug use can be traced back to government issue. For example, amphetamines given to soldiers in WWII. Carried through into the civilian world of the 1950s, it’s a safe bet. Fifthly, it is widely thought that government or its handmaidens the Mafia flooded the Haight-Ashbury with heroin in 1968 in order to break the hippie movement. And the CIA are well known for facilitating the cocaine trade in the 1980s. Sixthly, a survival tactic that should be taught widely is not to avoid all drug use, but don’t use whatever it is more than one day in a row, and if you really enjoy it, don’t ever do it more than once! Seventh, I’m enjoying my cup of coffee and ignoring that last piece of advice. And, I’ll do the same with a beer at the other end of the day. Now, where did my security clearance go? And why are there armed men wearing black at my door?
Good points, and well said. I'd enjoy an in person conversation on these as well.
Your point about the desire to be "out of it" being very old is true. Kim Stanley Robinson painted a great picture of a Neolithic party atmosphere with people high on mugwort and other herbs in his excellent book "Shaman."
I'm no puritan, though coffee is my drug of choice these days. You're quite right about the Beats and of course, the initiates of the Mysteries with their mysterious soma, and the oracle of Delphi high on the fumes of rotting python. The Bohemians of the elder days had their opium, hashish and absinthe. It seemed to work for Rimbaud. Until he had to become a gun runner anyway.
I guess the points you mention about the military introduction of meth, the nudging of LSD use by CIA, the same introduction of it to Haight Ashbury to break up the movement (as well as Operation CHAOS), and all the business between the CIA and central America is one of the reasons to have some skepticism about a counterculture with such a drug focus.
That was one of the reasons I brought up the Stoics... as Ancient Rome was doing its swirl around the drain, the Stoics stood apart from the decadence of the elite. They couldn't be bullied or bought with sex and drugs. When their is potentail powerful opposition to a counterculture not having all the additiction issues within a movement as an achilles heel would be a bonus.
Cheers.
You are well informed! Thank you for the detail of “the rotting python.” I’m going to call my dealer and see if there’s any about. Perhaps I’ll check the dark web if I can ever figure out how to get on it. Personal dealers are so passé. I suspect I’ll try it just the once. Whether that is because I enjoy it too much or because I get so revolted - perhaps a bad batch? - is as yet unknown.
Keep me posted. I'll want a full trip report.
Thanks for the chat!
Dealer is all out of rotting python but says there’ll be more in a week or two. Depending on how warm it is outside. Apparently, it’s not something to do in one’s kitchen like cooking crack.
Not going to argue with any of that ‘cos it’s pretty much what happened. I was simply trying to characterize the inflection point from countercultural enthusiasm for digital tech to “software eating the world.” As I recall, possibly accurately, I personally became disenchanted with the tech world in the mid ‘90s long before most of those techniques were introduced. There were, at the time, a number of books raising the relevant questions. I have a shelf of them, or rather a box full ‘cos I moved and have a lack of shelf room. Anyway, they influenced my thinking although my personal revelation was along the lines of hearing some gushing about screen resolutions and the thought arising in my head, “Who cares when reality has infinite resolution?” Right at the end of the ‘90s I went to work for a real-world bookshop that was taking a vocal stance against the corporation that had appropriated the name of the mighty river. Believe you me, that wasn’t much fun either. I was fired for expressing my opinion of management inadequacies too loudly. Just about the story of my life. Oh, well! I will admit that over the past quarter century my opinions of that riverine corporation have fluctuated. At this time, it seems almost quaint, a junior behemoth among some real giants. That’s probably an overly romantic view. I find it frustrating to use, although almost unavoidable. Cory Doctorow captured a lot with his enshittification concept!
One insight I got from Bateson that is very applicable to the modern world is (in my own words) is it is difficult to be much saner individually than the collective sanity level of your social environment.
it is worth saying that Bateson is not easy to read. He is best approached through the stories and metaphors he threw off. For instance, he thought Alcoholics Anonymous was interesting because it drove the drunk to a higher level in order to solve his problems. The idea at the time was that one stopped being an alcoholic by strengthening one's will to stop drinking; the problem was that one great solution to strengthening one's will was to have another drink. AA required (requires) that one admit one is an alcoholic, thus demoting one's own efforts, and to turn to a higher power for faith, strength and direction(the higher level).
Another of Bateson's images was of the tightrope walker Blondin crossing high over Niagara Falls with the help of a balancing stick (long, horizontal). If an imposed rule was to ensure that the balancing stick always remains horizontal, the result in any wind would drive the tightrope walker to sway and gyrate, and finally fall as he fails to maintain the stick horizontally, as the overall system (walker-stick-environment) goes quite mad. Bateson used this to argue that if we try and solve a system for one thing (horizontal balance) it can go berserk in trying to compensate or respond to the single minded purpose (Blake appears here). The best examples of this crazed system were ecosystems like the cod fisheries (solving for cod drives the rest of the ecosystem mad); and more directly (in our case) trying to control - solve - the earth for the benefit of one species (us). Thus the earth is in the process of being driven insane (climate change, etc.). Steps to an Ecology of Mind is the diagnostic tool of the contemporary earth situation (as Ted insinuates).
I think Bateson admired AA because he thought of it as a perfect cybernetic system: you start by admitting that you lost the battle, that you’ve surrendered, and build from there. And you start by accepting the reality of a “higher power,” which - contrary to a lot of opinions I’ve heard or read - is not specifically Christian. It’s just a force greater than yourself. AA doesn’t drive the participating alcoholic to a higher level. It establishes the reality of a power greater than oneself, which puts everything in a different light.
In other words, not a story or a metaphor or an image but a practice that actually works and that can only happen within a community of people who are also struggling.
I read the book many years ago and it really affected me. I think of that particular essay a lot because AA saved my best friend’s life.
I’ve written about Bateson very much in the same way you do in your article (in Catalan, so I doubt there’s any cross pollination here). His insights, curiosity and humor are always a good guide to go by.
And I believe that his fundamental search for “the pattern that connects” everything, basically an aesthetic search (in the deep, literal sense) is now more necessary than ever in the context of the multiple catastrophes we are immersed in.
I like to link Bateson’s attempt to comprehend reality as a whole with the notion of ‘resonance’ developed recently by German sociologist/philosopher Hartmut Rosa. I think their connection marks a way forward to remediate our relationship with the world.
Or, as you put it, to repropose a counterculture.
ah! would never have connected to rosa’s resonance! thanks for that lovely connection!
Molt bé.
Tot bé.
Damn this is good… And I’m old enough to remember all of this… and the terrible sense of failure. You bring some hope here Ted. Bless you.
For those who have not yet read “Steps to an Ecology of Mind”, Bateson’s “Mind and Nature” introduces his thinking slightly more concisely. After that, it’s easy to take on “Steps …”.
Additionally, David Lipset’s “Gregory Bateson: The Legacy of a Scientist” is very helpful.
""in the aftermath of the protests and love-ins, I firmly believed that the outsiders had triumphed. We had stopped the war, overcome the censorship, and defeated the system—it would never recover. (Ah, how naive I was.)""
Indeed. Nearly every single one of those people who took part in the protests and love ins of the 1960's turned around and supported "the system", censorship, big government and big pharma during the COVID debacle. The hippy boomers turned into the establishment that they hated so very much and protested against. And worst of all, they saw no irony in what they did. At every possible juncture they threw their support behind Pfizer, big government and big tech to quash scientific inquiry into questions about lockdowns, masking and safer alternatives to vaccines. If their younger self could see what they turned into they would be ashamed
If all you have to go by is vaccine denial you've hitched your argument to a dead horse.
The hippies love of big govt and vaccines is merely emblematic of the observation that they have become the lovers of authority that they professed to hate in their youth. They are now the authoritarians that they once protested. They are squares that they once mercilessly mocked.
Sorry, but I think uninformed generational politics is the problem. Possibly, there is no solution. However, it is important to note that a very small minority of “boomers,” to use a revolting term, were hippies in any way, shape, or form. The counterculture was exactly that, counter to what was going on and most people, young or not, are never counter to most of what’s going on. That is why it’s going on, albeit manipulated by those with power.
Yeah.
When I lived thru the high school/hippie overlap years, I noticed that among alla the cohort of my (pretty large) high school there were very few hippie-like kids, and very few obviously radical right kids (there were some, even in upscale coastal California), and a vast majority who were just plodding along. My subsequent observations suggest that what we were like in high school is pretty much what we have been like ever since.
Your argument relies on flogging a concept - “hippies”- that seems like an anachronism. Since it reached its zenith almost 60 years ago you should provide an update so readers have some idea who you’re actually on about. Most of the original bunch timed-out one way or another long ago. But certain trivial figments have persisted and colored thinking about the identity of this mysterious group. I bring it up because, like Ted Gioia, I was a bit too young to participate in the first wave but remember when it was big news. My conservative parents were definitely not interested. But many years later a guy informed me that my 2003 VW camper van was a hippie ride. That it bore no resemblance to the old 60s-70s VW vans apparently made no difference to his judgment call. It was VW van, so therefore it qualified. But I think the clincher was the California license plate - incriminating evidence from a state with 35,000,000 people.
There is a common and erroneous view that all boomers were hippies or sympathized with the counter-culture. This is simply not true. Fingerpointing and breast beating are useless exercises in thinking about how to move forward.
“Can’t trust anyone over 30….”
I sure don't trust myself much anymore...
Ted,
I respectfully recommend you include Seymour Papert in your reading. For full-disclosure, I worked with Papert for 20 years and am the curator of his unofficial archives at dailypapert.com. That said, he was a profoundly moral, liberal, creative, intellectual deeply rooted in science and social justice who is considered the father of educational computing. With each passing day, I become more convinced that he was one of the most prescient and wise thinkers of the past century. If you were to read one book by Dr. Papert, my choice would be The Children's Machine. https://amzn.to/41E9AiG
I look forward to digging into Seymour Papert and commend you for your curation and dedication. I was going to recommend as a balance to Bateson's runaway train of scientific and experimental positivism and as a complement to Bateson's latent empiricism Neil Postman's less grand works, at the top of the list AMUSING OURSELVES TO DEATH:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death
Health and balance,
warmly
Tio Mitchito
Sure, Postman is always great.
Being Digital by Nicholas Negroponte is important too.
https://amzn.to/3OY1wBB
"Surely America had now learned the futility of promoting never-ending military campaigns in remote parts of the world. It was just as obvious that crass materialism and status-seeking via possessions had been discredited. Even more, power and money had been turned into jokes and talismans of shallowness — making room for other priorities, more experiential and principled, to come to the forefront.
I was certain that freedom of expression would never again succumb to the censorship and witch hunts of the 1950s. By the same token, we were too smart to continue polluting our environment and destroying our ecosystem. And who wanted to turn back the clock and give up hard-won gains in civil liberties, due process, equality, limitations on government surveillance, restraints on police brutality, and dozens of other areas of tangible progress?
Yet I now see that I was pretty much wrong on all counts.
I’d thought the counterculture had won the battle, but that was all a mirage. Peace and nonviolence didn’t prevail. Respect and tolerance didn’t become second nature. Crass materialism did not retreat—in fact, it didn’t budge an inch."
If the Establishment is good at nothing else, it is very good at determining whom to co-opt, whom to buy off, whom to neutralize, whom to ignore.
As part of the 60s counterculture, many of us grew too comfortable and "dropped out," leaving the task of protest and countering to the next generation. Now nearing or already our 80s, we again feel the urge to resist and speak out. But is it too late?
No, it’s not.
Sure wish I could agree more wholeheartedly. I suggest reading the “Homeland” book by Richard Beck that I recommended elsewhere in this topic to grok the difficulties facing us today when it comes to standing up to The Man. Sorry for the cliches.
No point in giving up. The Man is likely weaker than he looks, and weaker than he claims. Stale ideas, lies, corrupt people. The power structure wants submission and acquiescence, but it may not keep getting it,
I don’t see the current/younger culture doing any protests.
I don't see ANYBODY doing any protests of any note, but certainly it was mostly young people protesting the US/You Know Who's genocide in Gaza on US college campuses (world-wide too). The crackdown was merciless, swift, cruel, stupid, and irrational. But there it was, and I don't think we've the end of it. Not even close.
Another good example of the double bind I heard recently: you're not stuck in traffic - you ARE traffic.
Sorry Ted, don’t buy it. Stanford may be a worthy Alma mater but what Bateson did there with LSD was evil. You don’t mention that he was part of the OSS (a CIA precursor). Those dolphins you mentioned died from LSD injections. Ken Kesey and Alan Ginsberg were ruined because of their little experiments. MK-Ultra, Cybernetics, counter culture, Stewart Brand, the Esalen Institute, sexual perversions — all part of the same problem. Thanks to your article I discovered more and am not amused.
From the New Yorker:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/01/29/tripping-on-utopia-margaret-mead-the-cold-war-and-the-troubled-birth-of-psychedelic-science-benjamin-breen-book-review
From David Livingston:
https://ordoabchao.ca/articles/psychedelics-and-fascism-from-mk-ultra-to-esalen-and-silicon-valley
Thanks for the links. Charlatanism and cynicism were rampant in the era and I can attest to it.
Yes, those articles really were hard to read because they open up a huge can of evil worms. But I am glad for the conversation starting.
One must come to grips with it, and often one must lose some cherished ideas and heroes.
OMG does Gregory Bateson matter!! I’m in Germany, just saw this NL from Ted; it’s way too late for me to read it (after midnight) but just had to chime in. One of my most important influences! Now to bed; will read in the morning.
Is the new counterculture “meeting and interacting with people offline”?
Processing.
I think it is.
I was obsessed with Bateson in grad school! Nice to know someone else remembers him.
I, too, was obsessed with Bateson in the early 70's. Somehow one thing that has stuck with me is his insistence that the map is not the territory. I still see the two confused way too often. (edited for missed word)
How's this grab you for a big picture?
Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
1 Timothy 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Deception-In-The-End-Times
The ancient articles covered Bateson's dilemma: how to respond to an 'enlightened' content delivery system claiming to answer really simple questions that humans conjure.