My Zen response to all this is “ Stop bothering me with this nonsense and let me have silence, trees and birdsong to continue writing that which means something to me”. Maybe there is still an audience for my heart.
Reportedly John Cage’s 4’33 was “written” in response to the proliferation of Muzak (especially in elevators, where music really drowns out environmental sound). This similarly noisy moment deserves a John Cage.
Thanks Jon, I really appreciate you taking the time to reply with this. I've got The Rest is Noice about 2ft from me so I'll delve into it again, as well as follow your link. Very interesting comment :)
"An audience for my heart" love it! We have to listen to hear God's whispher, don't we? Although I can hear it most adeptly during the dusk, walking in my garden.
There is and as someone raised Buddhist I certainly do. But I think the challenge is the economic model. Economic models always bleed into cultural creation whether it’s church or aristocratic patronage. To me it’s not stressed enough that all popular art in American – from Jazz to cinema – emerged under consumerism. I think right now we’re seeing the ultimate end of the consumer capitalist model’s pursuit of greater profits and efficiency.
I honestly think there is little threat from AI music as I believe that music lovers crave human connection. If AI is appealing to streaming services, I suspect that, as you suggest, streaming services will become a less appealing source of music and be instrumental in their own downfall. I think the appeal of all art is that someone felt something and it caused them to create something in which beauty can be seen. An algorithm cannot do that.
I really hope that people will "come back" to more live performance. I already see that people are craving that so maybe, as you say, streaming services becoming less appealing will lead to that
The threat is that revenue streams will be taken away. Venues need to pay a licence fee to be able to play licensed music, if the cost of licensing an AI to just play 'coldplay sounding stuff' is vastly cheaper, that money gets redirected - so it will hit working muscians and composers in this way
Agreed, the 'song of the summer' is never going to be composition A8174591.3528053 from the AI bot, but that's probably an outlier in the grand scheme of things
And like we're already seeing with authors and visual artists, what are the legal implications of asking an algorithm that's been trained on specific works to spit out copyright free music in the style of someone else, as that is for sure what is going to happen
That's it, exactly. Millions of businesses cutting their dealings with PROs for endless, mindless, royalty-free background/industrial/movie/TV music. One tech company, one-stop shopping, and it'll be one of the giants. I'd think BMI/ASCAP's existence will count on them figuring this out, and life will definitely change for so many musicians/writers...
When I was a kid, I ate Top Ramen daily because I was broke and it was about $0.20 per meal, but then I started making money and moved on to Tuna Melts. 🙂 Haven't had Top Ramen in decades.
I used to listen to cheesy 70's pop when I was a kid because it was on the radio and I knew nothing better. Then I discovered Queen. Good stuff always finds its way to the top.
I agree. I'm subscribed to Spotify, it is great for research purposes (like YouTube music and alike)and a world library at my fingertips, I buy vinyls and I just got a beautiful CD player. I am wondering : if Spotify tells me "go listen to this", will they tell me if it's human or AI generated music?
Ted, but who's the audience for this AI crap? If there is an audience, probably small, should we care? Let these foolish companies go bankrupt pursuing this idiotic obsession, and the rest of us happily discover, support, and listen to real human beings creating real music!
I don't know about that. I think the audience is going to be all of us as we are tortured with this guff in doctors' waiting rooms and just about any other public space where we are forced to wait.
Part of me wonders if music is being pushed underground before it re-emerges again as a strong cultural force. Music journalism has plummeted; the recording industry has collapsed with no obvious saviour in sight; recorded music is frequently just background music for other activities; artists now spend a lot of their time creating music aimed to go viral on social media; album releases are hardly noticed; most big acts are branded individuals not bands; many governments are cutting arts funding and education.
In terms of AI music, as banal as it is I can see a chunk of the population dumbing down to the point where they might even enjoy it, especially if it’s sold as having certain magical powers: increase your concentration; guess the lottery numbers; revitalise your libido. It saves you having to actually learn about culture: just type some key words and there is your custom music.
Despite this I have have hope. Painters responded to the camera by developing entirely new forms of art. AI can’t think conceptually, so human music is likely to become more conceptual. It might give us something to define ourselves and differentiate ourselves against. We’ve been becoming more cyborg for decades - perhaps this will encourage the opposite.
The public develops a preference for digital/flawless drums and a taste for autotune, so why not AI? The salient thing that undercut music is video games...
The recording industry is one thing that I for one don't miss. At all. It was a massive barrier to entry for many many people. That's the irony of this technology. While the expensive elite studios have died, my desktop enables me to do pretty much everything I need except high-end radio-ready mastering, which I'll pay someone else to do - also digitally. The irony.
I don't miss the record labels' dominance, but there are limitations to what can be done with home studios, wonderful as they are. Colin Currie's latest release recorded at Abbey Road Studios demonstrates this - it's sublimely recorded. I would not want these studios to collapse; I think they have great cultural value. Furthermore, music is an ecosystem of musicians, composers, studios, students, teachers, writers, shop owners, programmers, venue owners, DJs etc. The stronger the ecosystem the stronger we all are individually.
"but there are limitations to what can be done with home studios"
Well - mostly no. There is plenty of anything you need out there to do all aspects of your music. The only wall to accomplishing it is the learning of, and applying that learning to your music. It is a pretty steep climb, but just about anyone can do it if they so desire. (well that & the $ required) No need for the gatekeepers anymore.
How would you record Music for 18 Musicians in a home studio, or an orchestra for that matter? Natural acoustics is significant for good recordings. Good mixing desk costs the same as a sports car. Good mics aren’t much cheaper. By the time someone owns all this they basically have a pro-studio. You can do great stuff in home studios, but they aren’t the same.
I don't believe that the problem is they may enjoy it. It is that so many won't bother to see if that's what it is / where it came from. Very easy problem to fix if people would care.
I will add that this afternoon I’m heading to perform at a community event, “Music in the Park”, in Seattle, where we’ll play original songs for a crowd on the lawn. We’ll sing, talk, smile, laugh, story and see one another. True human connection without AI additives. It is still out there.
You're right. I recall seeing policy statements on that. There is however, a likelihood that the USPTO and the the US Copyright Office will be challenged in court over machine generated content
I see from Ken's post below that it would be difficult to identify the creator. It was something that popped into my head when I read the column. I will defer to other's judgment on this as I am not a copyright expert at all.
I’m not an expert re copyright either. There are chord progressions, however, on which many songs are written. One example is the 1-6-4-5. It’s commonly referred to as the “Heart and Soul” progression as that song is built specifically thereon. Many, many songs, are individually copyrighted with that exact chord progression. No one has the corner on that chord series as well as many others.
That's pretty much been done by real artists. Not to worry... The recent Ed Sheeran case was helpful in this regard. Lyrics are more brief, compared to say a novel, so there might be a concern on lyrical overlap.
The concept of fair use, on the other hand, is getting stretched by data prompted statistical content generation. No person can do what Mubert's program did. So, the very idea that Mubert's program "legally" listened to the music it used to train is dodgy. I'm sure this will all be tested in court.
To Gioia's larger point, people sorting through all the dross to find worthwhile artists is a constituency, and the companies flooding the field with crap might find themselves on the wrong side of the money.
Also, I agree with you in general, the "real" artist might have a bit of trouble in a world flooded with copyrighted statistically generated songs. And I am also watching how the courts treat that kind of content. Can it be copyrighted? Who are the authors, the training data composers?
If the Sheeran/Heirs of Marvin Gaye decision holds up on appeal, chord progressions will not be subject to copyright. Otherwise we’ll all just be paying each other.
In a scant few generations, artistic excellence will be but a quaint romantic notion. We dinosaurs will fade from the earth carrying our vivid memories of those who enriched our lives with artistic expression born of intellect, passion, and humanity. The 21st Century has, thus far, been all about devaluing humanity, celebrating greed and monetizing fear. All mankind's worst impulses now have sophisticated tools at their disposal. It's timely that Oppenheimer opens next week. We're really good at creating powerful things to destroy, but not so good at creating things of enduring great beauty and service to humanity.
Eloquently put, although I do disagree with the pessimism part (about us dinosaurs fading away). I actually find that the 21st Century, as brutal as it has been thus far, has been a never ending source of dystopian inspiration for my novel and songwriting, so much so I don't have enough years left to put all of my ideas to songs and words, though I'll certainly try. I'm sure there are many others. We've been basically buried in a deep compost pit. Some sort of beautiful flowers and plants are bound to grow out of it.
Out of morbid curiosity, I downloaded the Mubert app so I could listen to some of these tracks. They are exactly as terrible and pointless as the nay-sayers have noted, posessing not even a real melody, or even a vague understanding of tension-and-release that cookie cutter electronic genres like ambient utilize. It really is just a crap generator at this point.
I’ve been adding this to my disclaimer section lately:
“Note: I do not use any form of “Artificial Intelligence” in writing Michael Acoustic. It is possible that some external sources that I link to or quote do use or contain AI generated material.”
Interesting point about video games. They are such big business that real creativity goes into them. The big titles' creative teams are large and skilled. Writers, artists, and yes composers get paid real money to do serious work. People don't just expect great graphics - they want great games with all the bells and whistles. Competition is fierce; profits are enormous; why NOT spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on the music?
Everything's going to collapse soon. Maybe we'll need musicians to be the shamans again, the leader of the tribe with the nicest tent.
Anyone living in Dubai who wasn't born in the Gulf is, for the most part, a parasite. It's all about the money.
Ted doesn't write about health care. It's really bad. The money's being sucked out by all the middlemen, utterly predictable with the Medical-Industrial Complex. The quality of the doctors is abysmal. The older ones are mostly completely burnt out. The younger ones never would have been admitted forty years ago. This after decades of warnings about looming shortages everywhere, from nurses to primary care doctors, and now every specialty under the sun.
Haven't even mentioned climate change.
I don't know about cat guts and stuff, but it seems like soon the folks who know how to make strings out of nature will be in demand soon.
are you talking about Dubai or the US with that healthcare comment? Med school admissions in the US has gotten massively more competitive than it was fourth years ago, and almost no old doctors would have been able to get in today. Current med students and residents tend to be a fair bit smarter. that’s not all that matters to being a good doctor, of course. apologies if this wasn’t about the US, though I think many places in the world are similar
that's absolutely incorrect, many articles have been written about the phenomenon. unfortunately many of the best and brightest follow the money. that's not in medicine anymore. finance, law, MBAs. everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. then those who still might consider medicine read about getting squeezed between insurance companies, hedge funds buying out hospitals and medical practices, the grief with electronic medical records.
my nephew just graduated from Michigan. he and his friends did really well, all smart kids. none of them are headed to medical school. in the suburb where he's from, where I grew up, half the smart kids became doctors. also don't be fooled by admission rates and other stats like number of med school positions not keeping up with the population growth. basically, nobody wants the aggravation and who can blame them? physicians are employees now, evaluated by evermore bureaucrats for efficiency and being team players. read about the ones that got fired for daring to speak up when hospitals weren't prepared to deal with COVID? PR and money people run healthcare now.
Not in every country. My recent cataract surgery, in Thailand, cost 1/2 of the what it costs in the US, and if I wanted to go to a govt. sponsored hospital, it would have cost 1/2 of that. I didn't go to govt. hospital because, like most things run by the govt. it's inefficient and chaotic.
I’m a full time working musician (for over 30 years and counting) and due to modern pop music & the hippity hop,
I’ve long seen the downfall of real great music made with integrity by real musicians playing real instruments.
It honestly doesn’t take any musical knowledge, talent and years of musical practice these days for a laptop jockey to boot up a MacBook fire up your DAW of choice (garbage band, logic, fruity loops, pro fools, etc...) then drag & drop prerecorded wave files, premade midi files and auto tuned vocals into the edit screen. Any fool on this planet can make a hippity hop beat by dragging dots across a grid or flipping dials and switches in a beat making plugin... anybody can do this. There’s truly nothing special or groundbreaking to do this.
All it takes is a cheap windows computer or Mac, an interface, the software and time in front of the screen.
This process over the past 20 years has cheapened music and is one of the major reasons why all rap “music” sounds the same.... all the bedroom “producers“ on laptops (not instruments) are all using the same programs, wave files, drum loops, templates, etc..🤣 no wonder if all sounds the same.
Real music has soul and is made by humans. This is why Jazz, funk, reggae, rock, soul, r&b and classical music sounds so great.
Now with Ai we’ll see much more of this soulless robotic trap crap and talentless rappers and singers.
Most reality tv watching - Tik Tockin’ pop culture sheeple won’t care and probably won’t be able to tell the difference 😂
We were well warned back in the 80’s ... “I’ll be back.”
Any genre that one is unfamiliar with tends to sound the same to that listener
It may come as a shock but all jazz sounds the same to someone who doesn't listen to it
And electronic music isn't just pushing a button, most producers spend hours on making sure every sound is perfect and it requires just as much inspiration as acoustic music.
You can be as snobby as you want but there is a reason hip hop is the biggest music genre in the world
The reason jazz or orchestral music all sounds the same to you is .... you do not know or understand what you’re supposed to be listening for. It might just be information overload for some folks? Noticed how today’s pop & hippity hop music is the bottom of the barrel of simplicity.
Outside of slapping’ the hell out of a bass, singing like Sting or producing music in a real professional studio (utilizing real in tune vocalists and real musical instruments), I’m also a Music educator/college music professor. Throughout my 20 years + years of teaching & preaching at the college level I’ve found this is usually the culprit to humanity’s pop culture decline.
The reason hippity hop is so popular with the musically uneducated - ignorant masses = they have been conditioned to hearing a massive lack of harmony, melody, expansive rhythms and creative lyrics for more than the last 20 years (rise of the machines). It’s like fast food = no nutritional value, toxic and cheaply made or “cooked” by teenagers with no skills to be considered an actual chef. Anyone can do it. Much like a computer Any fool can use a microwave.
There was a time to when the term “Producer” actually referred to a very talented musician that played several instruments and could arrange music on paper and on the spot in the studio. Ever heard of Quincy Jones, Prince, James Brown, Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis and George Martin?
Not everyone is supposed to be on the stage. You must earn that right and privilege through years of practice, study, integrity and listening/learning from the masters. Notice that I’ve used the term “integrity“ twice in my posts.
Not everyone is supposed to be a musician, actor, recording artist, airplane pilot, etc. just because you have an iPhone doesn’t make you a photographer or a TV show host. Make note of how the word “artist” has been misused and misinterpreted since untalented laptop jockeys came on the scene.
Laptops and hippity hop has made it possible for any fool to mumble rap (if you can understand them?) or whine about the lowest common denominator in life’s adventures 🤣 boo hoo poor babies with no girlfriends💩
Here’s a question I usually ask my students: “If I were to go to Costco/Sams club and shop for many different premade appetizers, meals and desserts for a party at my house.. can I take credit for the food? No, I cannot. I can take credit for driving to the store, selecting the food, paying for it, and then arranging it on my kitchen table. Does that make me a cook or a chef? Absolutely not. This is what laptop jockeys do, they arrange pre-recorded license free WAV files on an edit screen, it doesn’t take a lot of talent to do that. Seriously, my 11-year-old could make a hippity hop beat in less than 20 minutes.
Sorry to break into your conversation, but you both deserve a note of appreciation. Thank you for making me think and - much more importantly - making me laugh. This is one of the most entertaining exchanges I have read since Vladimir and Estragon in 'Waiting for Godot'. You are two people I have never met, and yet I know you - your passions, your biases, your intelligences. Thank you for letting me (and others) into your worlds.
And, please God, don't tell me it was all AI-generated.
So double down on the snobbery, if you don't like the music I like than your stupid- nice
I've played as a percussionist for over 20 years in several bands that have won awards as well as using exotic time signatures
I'm aware of complexity and I've encountered many like you who think more complex and/or difficult music is automatically better. Do you really think everyone who doesn't like classical or jazz is just stupid?
I'm really dismayed that a music educator such as yourself has such a closed mind.
Ted Gioia often talks about the spiritual side of music from Pythagoras to Robert Johnson, do you think the blues would have even happened if all they cared about was complexity?
Punk rock happened as a reaction to how ridiculous and out of touch prog rock had become.
Not all music is for your head alot of it is for your body and feet and there is nothing wrong with that.
I feel sorry for your students to have such a closed minded teacher.
I think you’re missing the point and probably should enroll in a college level, music appreciation or jazz history course to understand it fully. The punk rock and blues musicians you just mentioned actually played real instruments and sang without the use of computerized masking tools. If it weren’t for the blues and jazz we wouldn’t have dance music. Rock music was created by black musicians, not white musicians just so you know. What they recorded is exactly what you heard, and it was real and soulful. Not to mention, they were not using AI technology or lazy dragging and dropping of pre-recorded wave files into a DAW program.
FYI My students pack out my courses every semester knowing what they’re in for. We deal with real musicians, playing real musical instruments writing real music. I do lecture on hippity hop to show them in real time with a Mac & Logic (that’s a DAW) how it is made and how easily anyone can make it.
I guess you can call me the Mulder of music history. The truth is out there! That’s an X-Files reference. 🤣👌🏼
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got some brains to wash😂🤘🏼
“There’s only two types of music, good and bad.” - James Brown
If you don’t know who James Brown is, you really should check him out.
Music tastes are completely subjective to the individual. Everyone has a different opinion. Not everyone thinks the same way you do. for you to get your ego crushed that I’m calling out shit robo music and hippity hop is just silly. Are you getting paid for this? Do you own hippity-hop? For you to imply that I am close minded is merely a projection of yourself? You’re not a Trump supporter are you?
As a professional musician I love most all music created by real musicians that really sing and play real instruments. I honestly dislike today’s hippity hop and pop music, because in most part to the limited lyrical contact, cartoon like character dramatic personalities and entitlement of worthless braggadocio... outside of the fact that most anyone can rap, the machines are doing all the work. The modern lazy sketchy style is truly not art. any fool can press the spacebar and complain about how they’re not getting what they should be getting out of life via boatloads of unoriginal profanity. It’s all been done before, 20 to 30 years ago (just much better). This is why the whole AI thing is completely ridiculous. But I’m sure some weak minded, pop-culture reality tv click tokkers will eat it up. 🥸
Technology is a double edge sword because it allows professionals like myself to record, mix, master, and distribute our music in no time. That’s a good side. On the other hand it allows subpar below average talentless laptop jockeys/rappers/out of tune-auto tune vocalists to pollute and flood the market with unoriginal crap they didn’t really create🤑
Since you probably will not enroll in a college level music history course, I highly advise you to check out Rick Beato on YouTube. That man really preaches the gospel and will provide you with aural and visual facts, all for free!
Your free out of class assignment is to listen to James Brown and focus on how he created the best form of rap, could sing with an incredible range (that’s how high and low his voice could go) perfectly in tune and how he established his rhythm section (that’s the drums, bass, guitar & keys) into becoming the bedrock of all American dance music after the swing period and then early rock & soul.
As you listen to his complete songs (not just a few seconds ) you could really spend time reflecting on the FACT that he (and his bandmates) created the style known as Funk. Unfortunately over the last 30 years this has devolved into the hippity hop trap crap of the day.
I’d be glad to lecture more to you, but as a professional with a few degrees hanging on the wall in my studio and the clock ticking I need to get paid. Much like a Trump supporter you’ll probably never change your mind, regardless of how much factual contact I supply.
Enjoy your summer & seriously consider enrolling in a music appreciation course...even at a community college. Just take one course, even if it’s not for credit. It will totally expand your mind beyond what you might be listening to?
Just to be clear I think ai music is a horrible idea for the same reasons as others here, because it takes out the human element which is what art is all about
But don't lump all electronic music in with that. Any good electronic music has the artists personal touch just as much as acoustic.
Don't mistake the tools for the art.
After all photography is a respected art form even though all it takes is pointing and clicking a device.
Like someone else mentioned re: social media sites, when a platform or an industry becomes inundated with crap, people leave and go somewhere else.
I, for one, can hardly stand Facebook. I just keep it for my band page. I don't peruse any main stream media; I mostly follow substackers like Ted. I am a rock and metal guy to the core, but I can't stand rock radio any more because all the labels and stations play is the same stuff from the 60s and 70s and new stuff that sounds like the old stuff. I'm Who'd and Zeppelin'd out, but apparently that's their formula and they seem to be sticking to it. I was briefly on Spotify back in 2013, but left shortly after because I felt almost like an addict, like music wasn't as valuable suddenly. I pulled my small catalog from all streaming sites.
All this to say that I'm taking everyone's word for it that the AI stuff is crap. I'm not even bothering to listen. [UPDATE: OK, curiosity got the best of me and I went to Mubert... listened to the first track that looked interesting and laughed out loud, and only lasted about 5 seconds.] I can imagine that these programmers have some delusion that they'll make royalties from generating so much content, but I'd bet they are in for a rude awakening.
Yesterday, I saw a comment from another substack mentioning an old Mike & The Mechanics song "The Living Years". I couldn't remember the song very well, so I went back and listened. I ended up crying like a kid again at the memory of the loss of my father. Sorry, AI might be able to mimic, but it'll never write what a human with a life of experiences with heart and emotions can.
These techies can flood the zone all they want, but it’s not going to work.
One small thing I decided to do is place a barred-circle NO AI watermark on any video I create for YouTube or any other digital ‘venue’ supporting the music I create. (Four videos so far.) It’s done in such a way that it doesn’t distract from the video content; it just appears at top left for the first ten seconds or so. We need to fight this horror however we can
My Zen response to all this is “ Stop bothering me with this nonsense and let me have silence, trees and birdsong to continue writing that which means something to me”. Maybe there is still an audience for my heart.
Reportedly John Cage’s 4’33 was “written” in response to the proliferation of Muzak (especially in elevators, where music really drowns out environmental sound). This similarly noisy moment deserves a John Cage.
I was not aware of that. You don’t happen to have a source for that do you?
A quote here references the connection, from when the piece was going to be called “Silent Prayer”. Obviously there’s a lot more to 4’33, but Muzak’s pervasiveness seems to have gotten the Zen juices flowing. https://rosewhitemusic.com/piano/writings/five-statements-on-silence-by-john-cage/
I believe Alex Ross’s book also goes into this.
Thanks Jon, I really appreciate you taking the time to reply with this. I've got The Rest is Noice about 2ft from me so I'll delve into it again, as well as follow your link. Very interesting comment :)
There is.
"An audience for my heart" love it! We have to listen to hear God's whispher, don't we? Although I can hear it most adeptly during the dusk, walking in my garden.
On the other hand, greed may be unstoppable.
https://twitter.com/JustineBateman/status/1657476895972413440
Greed has always been unstoppable, that's why the world is in the condition that it's in today.
There is and as someone raised Buddhist I certainly do. But I think the challenge is the economic model. Economic models always bleed into cultural creation whether it’s church or aristocratic patronage. To me it’s not stressed enough that all popular art in American – from Jazz to cinema – emerged under consumerism. I think right now we’re seeing the ultimate end of the consumer capitalist model’s pursuit of greater profits and efficiency.
I honestly think there is little threat from AI music as I believe that music lovers crave human connection. If AI is appealing to streaming services, I suspect that, as you suggest, streaming services will become a less appealing source of music and be instrumental in their own downfall. I think the appeal of all art is that someone felt something and it caused them to create something in which beauty can be seen. An algorithm cannot do that.
I really hope that people will "come back" to more live performance. I already see that people are craving that so maybe, as you say, streaming services becoming less appealing will lead to that
The threat is that revenue streams will be taken away. Venues need to pay a licence fee to be able to play licensed music, if the cost of licensing an AI to just play 'coldplay sounding stuff' is vastly cheaper, that money gets redirected - so it will hit working muscians and composers in this way
Agreed, the 'song of the summer' is never going to be composition A8174591.3528053 from the AI bot, but that's probably an outlier in the grand scheme of things
And like we're already seeing with authors and visual artists, what are the legal implications of asking an algorithm that's been trained on specific works to spit out copyright free music in the style of someone else, as that is for sure what is going to happen
That's it, exactly. Millions of businesses cutting their dealings with PROs for endless, mindless, royalty-free background/industrial/movie/TV music. One tech company, one-stop shopping, and it'll be one of the giants. I'd think BMI/ASCAP's existence will count on them figuring this out, and life will definitely change for so many musicians/writers...
Those who are preteens and don't know the difference, will be the driving force for acceptance of AI music, art, everything.
When I was a kid, I ate Top Ramen daily because I was broke and it was about $0.20 per meal, but then I started making money and moved on to Tuna Melts. 🙂 Haven't had Top Ramen in decades.
I used to listen to cheesy 70's pop when I was a kid because it was on the radio and I knew nothing better. Then I discovered Queen. Good stuff always finds its way to the top.
Good stuff (whatever that means) may find it's way to the top, the question is, do people find their way to the top?
You’ve found your way, and I’m thankful for that 🙂
I agree, but I certainly don’t ‘like’. The shifting paradigm of human spiritual development is in a death spiral.
That’s actually a very good point. I hope you’re wrong.
there's always going to be a force pushing back from the Luddites...thankfully
Sure hope you're right.
So true.
I agree. I'm subscribed to Spotify, it is great for research purposes (like YouTube music and alike)and a world library at my fingertips, I buy vinyls and I just got a beautiful CD player. I am wondering : if Spotify tells me "go listen to this", will they tell me if it's human or AI generated music?
I think not!
I totally agree. What is the point of listening to AI generated music?
Well said. Admiration- even envy- is a component of music appreciation.
Ted, but who's the audience for this AI crap? If there is an audience, probably small, should we care? Let these foolish companies go bankrupt pursuing this idiotic obsession, and the rest of us happily discover, support, and listen to real human beings creating real music!
The audience is the preteens, who don't know the difference between live and AI.
I don't know about that. I think the audience is going to be all of us as we are tortured with this guff in doctors' waiting rooms and just about any other public space where we are forced to wait.
Yep, that’s the thing that worries me
Good point.
Part of me wonders if music is being pushed underground before it re-emerges again as a strong cultural force. Music journalism has plummeted; the recording industry has collapsed with no obvious saviour in sight; recorded music is frequently just background music for other activities; artists now spend a lot of their time creating music aimed to go viral on social media; album releases are hardly noticed; most big acts are branded individuals not bands; many governments are cutting arts funding and education.
In terms of AI music, as banal as it is I can see a chunk of the population dumbing down to the point where they might even enjoy it, especially if it’s sold as having certain magical powers: increase your concentration; guess the lottery numbers; revitalise your libido. It saves you having to actually learn about culture: just type some key words and there is your custom music.
Despite this I have have hope. Painters responded to the camera by developing entirely new forms of art. AI can’t think conceptually, so human music is likely to become more conceptual. It might give us something to define ourselves and differentiate ourselves against. We’ve been becoming more cyborg for decades - perhaps this will encourage the opposite.
"Painters responded to the camera by developing entirely new forms of art."
Incredibly relevant point, and it gives me some hope.
The public develops a preference for digital/flawless drums and a taste for autotune, so why not AI? The salient thing that undercut music is video games...
The recording industry is one thing that I for one don't miss. At all. It was a massive barrier to entry for many many people. That's the irony of this technology. While the expensive elite studios have died, my desktop enables me to do pretty much everything I need except high-end radio-ready mastering, which I'll pay someone else to do - also digitally. The irony.
I don't miss the record labels' dominance, but there are limitations to what can be done with home studios, wonderful as they are. Colin Currie's latest release recorded at Abbey Road Studios demonstrates this - it's sublimely recorded. I would not want these studios to collapse; I think they have great cultural value. Furthermore, music is an ecosystem of musicians, composers, studios, students, teachers, writers, shop owners, programmers, venue owners, DJs etc. The stronger the ecosystem the stronger we all are individually.
"but there are limitations to what can be done with home studios"
Well - mostly no. There is plenty of anything you need out there to do all aspects of your music. The only wall to accomplishing it is the learning of, and applying that learning to your music. It is a pretty steep climb, but just about anyone can do it if they so desire. (well that & the $ required) No need for the gatekeepers anymore.
How would you record Music for 18 Musicians in a home studio, or an orchestra for that matter? Natural acoustics is significant for good recordings. Good mixing desk costs the same as a sports car. Good mics aren’t much cheaper. By the time someone owns all this they basically have a pro-studio. You can do great stuff in home studios, but they aren’t the same.
This is the way. Make AI little but Pop Rocks all the way down
I don't believe that the problem is they may enjoy it. It is that so many won't bother to see if that's what it is / where it came from. Very easy problem to fix if people would care.
I will add that this afternoon I’m heading to perform at a community event, “Music in the Park”, in Seattle, where we’ll play original songs for a crowd on the lawn. We’ll sing, talk, smile, laugh, story and see one another. True human connection without AI additives. It is still out there.
Sounds great. Wish I could go, but I live a bit far away. Australia.
You can support the local artists by attending their performances.
Already do.
Here's a little sample... :) https://youtu.be/SRN8rucQ94o
My fear is that they will generate all possible chord progressions and then sue anyone with new music that matches them.
I may be mistaken but I believe the copyright office is saying that AI-generated music doesn’t qualify for copyright protection.
Good!
I had the same though. How could AI legally obtain use when all AI does is data mine other people's content?
You're right. I recall seeing policy statements on that. There is however, a likelihood that the USPTO and the the US Copyright Office will be challenged in court over machine generated content
Chord progressions cannot be copyrighted...
I see from Ken's post below that it would be difficult to identify the creator. It was something that popped into my head when I read the column. I will defer to other's judgment on this as I am not a copyright expert at all.
I’m not an expert re copyright either. There are chord progressions, however, on which many songs are written. One example is the 1-6-4-5. It’s commonly referred to as the “Heart and Soul” progression as that song is built specifically thereon. Many, many songs, are individually copyrighted with that exact chord progression. No one has the corner on that chord series as well as many others.
Which genre is based entirely on the I-IV-V? You get one guess :D
The copyright cat was truly let out of the bag on THAT one :)
I don’t understand…
What is the Blues?
That's pretty much been done by real artists. Not to worry... The recent Ed Sheeran case was helpful in this regard. Lyrics are more brief, compared to say a novel, so there might be a concern on lyrical overlap.
The concept of fair use, on the other hand, is getting stretched by data prompted statistical content generation. No person can do what Mubert's program did. So, the very idea that Mubert's program "legally" listened to the music it used to train is dodgy. I'm sure this will all be tested in court.
To Gioia's larger point, people sorting through all the dross to find worthwhile artists is a constituency, and the companies flooding the field with crap might find themselves on the wrong side of the money.
Also, I agree with you in general, the "real" artist might have a bit of trouble in a world flooded with copyrighted statistically generated songs. And I am also watching how the courts treat that kind of content. Can it be copyrighted? Who are the authors, the training data composers?
But you can't copyright a chord progression--only a melody. Though maybe AI could generate all possible melodies!
Oh my god, I hadn't even thought of that, Terry. Arrgh.
If the Sheeran/Heirs of Marvin Gaye decision holds up on appeal, chord progressions will not be subject to copyright. Otherwise we’ll all just be paying each other.
In a scant few generations, artistic excellence will be but a quaint romantic notion. We dinosaurs will fade from the earth carrying our vivid memories of those who enriched our lives with artistic expression born of intellect, passion, and humanity. The 21st Century has, thus far, been all about devaluing humanity, celebrating greed and monetizing fear. All mankind's worst impulses now have sophisticated tools at their disposal. It's timely that Oppenheimer opens next week. We're really good at creating powerful things to destroy, but not so good at creating things of enduring great beauty and service to humanity.
Eloquently put, although I do disagree with the pessimism part (about us dinosaurs fading away). I actually find that the 21st Century, as brutal as it has been thus far, has been a never ending source of dystopian inspiration for my novel and songwriting, so much so I don't have enough years left to put all of my ideas to songs and words, though I'll certainly try. I'm sure there are many others. We've been basically buried in a deep compost pit. Some sort of beautiful flowers and plants are bound to grow out of it.
Out of morbid curiosity, I downloaded the Mubert app so I could listen to some of these tracks. They are exactly as terrible and pointless as the nay-sayers have noted, posessing not even a real melody, or even a vague understanding of tension-and-release that cookie cutter electronic genres like ambient utilize. It really is just a crap generator at this point.
Good to hear. It doesn't mean that supermarkets and elevator companies won't jump on it if it's cheap enough..
I’ve been adding this to my disclaimer section lately:
“Note: I do not use any form of “Artificial Intelligence” in writing Michael Acoustic. It is possible that some external sources that I link to or quote do use or contain AI generated material.”
Call me a Luddite and come at me, Big AI!
Hi Michael
More disclaimers (I went through my food cupboard)
This music may contain traces of AI.
This music is 99% AI free.
This music is made from 99% human ingredients.
These are great!!
Hope this makes everyone feel better. We keep listening to our favorite no AI artists.
I do hope music has better chances than visual artists.
Let’s hope that writing has a better chance too.
AI is a lot of quantity and no quality.
Which is actually perfect for creatives, to really make art that stands out from this infinite noise of similar pattern.
I can’t imagine playing a videogame made by an AI, it must be like living through hell or being stuck in a nightmare.
This applies to all AI “art” and honestly I believe music is the shittiest (maybe because I am a musician)
Interesting point about video games. They are such big business that real creativity goes into them. The big titles' creative teams are large and skilled. Writers, artists, and yes composers get paid real money to do serious work. People don't just expect great graphics - they want great games with all the bells and whistles. Competition is fierce; profits are enormous; why NOT spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on the music?
Had to chuckle at "videogame." The last one I played was either Space Invaders or Pac Man on my Atari in 1981.
Video games still don't right to me. Always in that "uncanny valley"
Everything's going to collapse soon. Maybe we'll need musicians to be the shamans again, the leader of the tribe with the nicest tent.
Anyone living in Dubai who wasn't born in the Gulf is, for the most part, a parasite. It's all about the money.
Ted doesn't write about health care. It's really bad. The money's being sucked out by all the middlemen, utterly predictable with the Medical-Industrial Complex. The quality of the doctors is abysmal. The older ones are mostly completely burnt out. The younger ones never would have been admitted forty years ago. This after decades of warnings about looming shortages everywhere, from nurses to primary care doctors, and now every specialty under the sun.
Haven't even mentioned climate change.
I don't know about cat guts and stuff, but it seems like soon the folks who know how to make strings out of nature will be in demand soon.
I think the best musicians are indeed shamans. They're the only shamans we've got, really.
are you talking about Dubai or the US with that healthcare comment? Med school admissions in the US has gotten massively more competitive than it was fourth years ago, and almost no old doctors would have been able to get in today. Current med students and residents tend to be a fair bit smarter. that’s not all that matters to being a good doctor, of course. apologies if this wasn’t about the US, though I think many places in the world are similar
that's absolutely incorrect, many articles have been written about the phenomenon. unfortunately many of the best and brightest follow the money. that's not in medicine anymore. finance, law, MBAs. everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. then those who still might consider medicine read about getting squeezed between insurance companies, hedge funds buying out hospitals and medical practices, the grief with electronic medical records.
my nephew just graduated from Michigan. he and his friends did really well, all smart kids. none of them are headed to medical school. in the suburb where he's from, where I grew up, half the smart kids became doctors. also don't be fooled by admission rates and other stats like number of med school positions not keeping up with the population growth. basically, nobody wants the aggravation and who can blame them? physicians are employees now, evaluated by evermore bureaucrats for efficiency and being team players. read about the ones that got fired for daring to speak up when hospitals weren't prepared to deal with COVID? PR and money people run healthcare now.
Not in every country. My recent cataract surgery, in Thailand, cost 1/2 of the what it costs in the US, and if I wanted to go to a govt. sponsored hospital, it would have cost 1/2 of that. I didn't go to govt. hospital because, like most things run by the govt. it's inefficient and chaotic.
Preach on Preacher!
I’m a full time working musician (for over 30 years and counting) and due to modern pop music & the hippity hop,
I’ve long seen the downfall of real great music made with integrity by real musicians playing real instruments.
It honestly doesn’t take any musical knowledge, talent and years of musical practice these days for a laptop jockey to boot up a MacBook fire up your DAW of choice (garbage band, logic, fruity loops, pro fools, etc...) then drag & drop prerecorded wave files, premade midi files and auto tuned vocals into the edit screen. Any fool on this planet can make a hippity hop beat by dragging dots across a grid or flipping dials and switches in a beat making plugin... anybody can do this. There’s truly nothing special or groundbreaking to do this.
All it takes is a cheap windows computer or Mac, an interface, the software and time in front of the screen.
This process over the past 20 years has cheapened music and is one of the major reasons why all rap “music” sounds the same.... all the bedroom “producers“ on laptops (not instruments) are all using the same programs, wave files, drum loops, templates, etc..🤣 no wonder if all sounds the same.
Real music has soul and is made by humans. This is why Jazz, funk, reggae, rock, soul, r&b and classical music sounds so great.
Now with Ai we’ll see much more of this soulless robotic trap crap and talentless rappers and singers.
Most reality tv watching - Tik Tockin’ pop culture sheeple won’t care and probably won’t be able to tell the difference 😂
We were well warned back in the 80’s ... “I’ll be back.”
Wow thats alot of hate for one post
Any genre that one is unfamiliar with tends to sound the same to that listener
It may come as a shock but all jazz sounds the same to someone who doesn't listen to it
And electronic music isn't just pushing a button, most producers spend hours on making sure every sound is perfect and it requires just as much inspiration as acoustic music.
You can be as snobby as you want but there is a reason hip hop is the biggest music genre in the world
The reason jazz or orchestral music all sounds the same to you is .... you do not know or understand what you’re supposed to be listening for. It might just be information overload for some folks? Noticed how today’s pop & hippity hop music is the bottom of the barrel of simplicity.
Outside of slapping’ the hell out of a bass, singing like Sting or producing music in a real professional studio (utilizing real in tune vocalists and real musical instruments), I’m also a Music educator/college music professor. Throughout my 20 years + years of teaching & preaching at the college level I’ve found this is usually the culprit to humanity’s pop culture decline.
The reason hippity hop is so popular with the musically uneducated - ignorant masses = they have been conditioned to hearing a massive lack of harmony, melody, expansive rhythms and creative lyrics for more than the last 20 years (rise of the machines). It’s like fast food = no nutritional value, toxic and cheaply made or “cooked” by teenagers with no skills to be considered an actual chef. Anyone can do it. Much like a computer Any fool can use a microwave.
There was a time to when the term “Producer” actually referred to a very talented musician that played several instruments and could arrange music on paper and on the spot in the studio. Ever heard of Quincy Jones, Prince, James Brown, Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis and George Martin?
Not everyone is supposed to be on the stage. You must earn that right and privilege through years of practice, study, integrity and listening/learning from the masters. Notice that I’ve used the term “integrity“ twice in my posts.
Not everyone is supposed to be a musician, actor, recording artist, airplane pilot, etc. just because you have an iPhone doesn’t make you a photographer or a TV show host. Make note of how the word “artist” has been misused and misinterpreted since untalented laptop jockeys came on the scene.
Laptops and hippity hop has made it possible for any fool to mumble rap (if you can understand them?) or whine about the lowest common denominator in life’s adventures 🤣 boo hoo poor babies with no girlfriends💩
Here’s a question I usually ask my students: “If I were to go to Costco/Sams club and shop for many different premade appetizers, meals and desserts for a party at my house.. can I take credit for the food? No, I cannot. I can take credit for driving to the store, selecting the food, paying for it, and then arranging it on my kitchen table. Does that make me a cook or a chef? Absolutely not. This is what laptop jockeys do, they arrange pre-recorded license free WAV files on an edit screen, it doesn’t take a lot of talent to do that. Seriously, my 11-year-old could make a hippity hop beat in less than 20 minutes.
Sad... sad... sad...
Sorry to break into your conversation, but you both deserve a note of appreciation. Thank you for making me think and - much more importantly - making me laugh. This is one of the most entertaining exchanges I have read since Vladimir and Estragon in 'Waiting for Godot'. You are two people I have never met, and yet I know you - your passions, your biases, your intelligences. Thank you for letting me (and others) into your worlds.
And, please God, don't tell me it was all AI-generated.
So double down on the snobbery, if you don't like the music I like than your stupid- nice
I've played as a percussionist for over 20 years in several bands that have won awards as well as using exotic time signatures
I'm aware of complexity and I've encountered many like you who think more complex and/or difficult music is automatically better. Do you really think everyone who doesn't like classical or jazz is just stupid?
I'm really dismayed that a music educator such as yourself has such a closed mind.
Ted Gioia often talks about the spiritual side of music from Pythagoras to Robert Johnson, do you think the blues would have even happened if all they cared about was complexity?
Punk rock happened as a reaction to how ridiculous and out of touch prog rock had become.
Not all music is for your head alot of it is for your body and feet and there is nothing wrong with that.
I feel sorry for your students to have such a closed minded teacher.
I think you’re missing the point and probably should enroll in a college level, music appreciation or jazz history course to understand it fully. The punk rock and blues musicians you just mentioned actually played real instruments and sang without the use of computerized masking tools. If it weren’t for the blues and jazz we wouldn’t have dance music. Rock music was created by black musicians, not white musicians just so you know. What they recorded is exactly what you heard, and it was real and soulful. Not to mention, they were not using AI technology or lazy dragging and dropping of pre-recorded wave files into a DAW program.
FYI My students pack out my courses every semester knowing what they’re in for. We deal with real musicians, playing real musical instruments writing real music. I do lecture on hippity hop to show them in real time with a Mac & Logic (that’s a DAW) how it is made and how easily anyone can make it.
I guess you can call me the Mulder of music history. The truth is out there! That’s an X-Files reference. 🤣👌🏼
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got some brains to wash😂🤘🏼
So its the electronic instruments that are the problem?
What about multi track studios? They were considered cheating when bands first did overdubs
But no one questions that now.
I have as much respect for traditional musicianship as anyone but I can also open my mind up enough to see other ways of valuing art
Other than just how well they play an instrument
You are letting your biases get in the way of your judgment.
There's alot of music I don't care for but I don't automatically assume their fans are stupid.
Alot of hip hop is crap, alot of rock is crap, that doesn't mean its all crap.
And I don't think you have any business teaching about hip hop when you don't seem to get that its about the lyrics!
Your elitist condescending attitude would be considered very weird in alot of cultures.
Music isn't supposed to be rocket science.
“There’s only two types of music, good and bad.” - James Brown
If you don’t know who James Brown is, you really should check him out.
Music tastes are completely subjective to the individual. Everyone has a different opinion. Not everyone thinks the same way you do. for you to get your ego crushed that I’m calling out shit robo music and hippity hop is just silly. Are you getting paid for this? Do you own hippity-hop? For you to imply that I am close minded is merely a projection of yourself? You’re not a Trump supporter are you?
As a professional musician I love most all music created by real musicians that really sing and play real instruments. I honestly dislike today’s hippity hop and pop music, because in most part to the limited lyrical contact, cartoon like character dramatic personalities and entitlement of worthless braggadocio... outside of the fact that most anyone can rap, the machines are doing all the work. The modern lazy sketchy style is truly not art. any fool can press the spacebar and complain about how they’re not getting what they should be getting out of life via boatloads of unoriginal profanity. It’s all been done before, 20 to 30 years ago (just much better). This is why the whole AI thing is completely ridiculous. But I’m sure some weak minded, pop-culture reality tv click tokkers will eat it up. 🥸
Technology is a double edge sword because it allows professionals like myself to record, mix, master, and distribute our music in no time. That’s a good side. On the other hand it allows subpar below average talentless laptop jockeys/rappers/out of tune-auto tune vocalists to pollute and flood the market with unoriginal crap they didn’t really create🤑
Since you probably will not enroll in a college level music history course, I highly advise you to check out Rick Beato on YouTube. That man really preaches the gospel and will provide you with aural and visual facts, all for free!
Your free out of class assignment is to listen to James Brown and focus on how he created the best form of rap, could sing with an incredible range (that’s how high and low his voice could go) perfectly in tune and how he established his rhythm section (that’s the drums, bass, guitar & keys) into becoming the bedrock of all American dance music after the swing period and then early rock & soul.
As you listen to his complete songs (not just a few seconds ) you could really spend time reflecting on the FACT that he (and his bandmates) created the style known as Funk. Unfortunately over the last 30 years this has devolved into the hippity hop trap crap of the day.
I’d be glad to lecture more to you, but as a professional with a few degrees hanging on the wall in my studio and the clock ticking I need to get paid. Much like a Trump supporter you’ll probably never change your mind, regardless of how much factual contact I supply.
Enjoy your summer & seriously consider enrolling in a music appreciation course...even at a community college. Just take one course, even if it’s not for credit. It will totally expand your mind beyond what you might be listening to?
Just to be clear I think ai music is a horrible idea for the same reasons as others here, because it takes out the human element which is what art is all about
But don't lump all electronic music in with that. Any good electronic music has the artists personal touch just as much as acoustic.
Don't mistake the tools for the art.
After all photography is a respected art form even though all it takes is pointing and clicking a device.
This makes me want to purposefully cry human tears.
Like someone else mentioned re: social media sites, when a platform or an industry becomes inundated with crap, people leave and go somewhere else.
I, for one, can hardly stand Facebook. I just keep it for my band page. I don't peruse any main stream media; I mostly follow substackers like Ted. I am a rock and metal guy to the core, but I can't stand rock radio any more because all the labels and stations play is the same stuff from the 60s and 70s and new stuff that sounds like the old stuff. I'm Who'd and Zeppelin'd out, but apparently that's their formula and they seem to be sticking to it. I was briefly on Spotify back in 2013, but left shortly after because I felt almost like an addict, like music wasn't as valuable suddenly. I pulled my small catalog from all streaming sites.
All this to say that I'm taking everyone's word for it that the AI stuff is crap. I'm not even bothering to listen. [UPDATE: OK, curiosity got the best of me and I went to Mubert... listened to the first track that looked interesting and laughed out loud, and only lasted about 5 seconds.] I can imagine that these programmers have some delusion that they'll make royalties from generating so much content, but I'd bet they are in for a rude awakening.
Yesterday, I saw a comment from another substack mentioning an old Mike & The Mechanics song "The Living Years". I couldn't remember the song very well, so I went back and listened. I ended up crying like a kid again at the memory of the loss of my father. Sorry, AI might be able to mimic, but it'll never write what a human with a life of experiences with heart and emotions can.
These techies can flood the zone all they want, but it’s not going to work.
One small thing I decided to do is place a barred-circle NO AI watermark on any video I create for YouTube or any other digital ‘venue’ supporting the music I create. (Four videos so far.) It’s done in such a way that it doesn’t distract from the video content; it just appears at top left for the first ten seconds or so. We need to fight this horror however we can