Sir Norton, Gotta ask, do you ride one? As for the youngsters, do you discuss why they are attracted to the older? I have my thoughts on the matter, but I would love to hear theirs.
Sir Norton, Gotta ask, do you ride one? As for the youngsters, do you discuss why they are attracted to the older? I have my thoughts on the matter, but I would love to hear theirs.
The ones I see and work with are attracted to the older because that's what is presented to them as being most important by the education systems.
If a young person can regurgitate a famous musicians solo, show a high degree of technical proficiency, and treat music as a sporting event...(the WOW! factor or getting house as we used to say) they are rewarded by winning scholarships, competitions, and awards. Young people are rarely asked to be or play anything original or creative by their teachers and committees. School of Rock? Learn songs from the 1970s. College jazz programs? Learn the music of the 1940s. 50s, and early 60s, and stop right there. Don't even consider what happened musically after the death of say someone like John Coltrane. Forget about delving into jazz and improvised music and musicians from Europe, Africa, and the Pacific rim. Forget about what came out of the Avant-garde and more open ended ways of playing in the 1970s, 80s, 90, and early 21st century. Recreating is in vogue and creating is swept under the rug.
Very true. Our local academy runs jazz courses but turns out what I would call classical jazz musicians. Rehearsals of older numbers are carried out with a slavish adherence to the recorded articulation and feel that would surprise even classical musicians. It's an orthodoxy that seems to be gaining ground.
there is an interesting you tube clip of a discussion between Wynton Marsalis and Herbie Hancock which sort of displays the argument between orthodoxy against innovation
That orthodoxy is a sort of rigidity we seem to be noticing in all fields these days. Even in the classical world it doesnтАЩt serve the interests of the young musicians, just serves s lockstep, lockdown, mentality. Too bad as the whole point of music is learning the language of creativity.
Wow, glad our younger musicians arenтАЩt exposed to this. But then again most of the really good musicians play the work of others first and then develop their own independence in composition, songwriting, musicianship and recording. Really talented ones go there own way ASAP but never forget the fundamentals.
Tim Berne, Cecil Taylor, Ornette Coleman, Lester Bowie, never really spent much time at all learning the "jazz fundamentals". The idea that one must first learn the American song book and a number of classic jazz compositions to eventually develop your own ideas and creativity is something I have serious doubts about.
Oh, I strongly agree with that. I have seen talented young musicians be ruined by overly stressing theory, exact interpretations of written or previously performed music. The true musician will learn to be faithful to their own creativity. Not until they discover that can they become the musician their talent supports. But a truly talented and inspired musician will always apply their own stamp to the work of others. Rote memorization has its role but only as an adjunct to the inspiration offered by the individual.
I just think of it as good taste. They listened to all the classic rock, roots & blues, jazz and much more growing up. When you work with real musicians it is difficult to find great music they don't like and understand. I just love their enthusiasm for all the music of our now very wounded culture. Gives me hope & trust! I listen to more current stuff than they do - Tyler Childers, Colter Wall. War & Treaty, Jason Isbell, Whiskey Meyers, etc. Interesting phenomenon. There will be more out from our artists & their opinions whenever they get around to recording.
Yes, raw creativity is always out there, as well as iconoclasts who go their own way and sometimes mine a new treasure trove of innovation. But the question is whether the market feeds these new innovators or starves them. Digital formats have been feeding the creativity with new tools for creativity, but starving the artists in the marketplace.
All true. At least the process in an interesting and valuable pursuit. Luckily most of the musicians out there (not necessarily the business people) are quick to recognize & respect talent in others. I have a curious faith that good music will get through as people really need the stories and information sweetened by the music which bypasses much over rated thought. We need geniuses as musicians, fans, engineers, equipment experts, and as graphic artists and promoters.
Sir Norton, Gotta ask, do you ride one? As for the youngsters, do you discuss why they are attracted to the older? I have my thoughts on the matter, but I would love to hear theirs.
Why are students attracted to the older?
The ones I see and work with are attracted to the older because that's what is presented to them as being most important by the education systems.
If a young person can regurgitate a famous musicians solo, show a high degree of technical proficiency, and treat music as a sporting event...(the WOW! factor or getting house as we used to say) they are rewarded by winning scholarships, competitions, and awards. Young people are rarely asked to be or play anything original or creative by their teachers and committees. School of Rock? Learn songs from the 1970s. College jazz programs? Learn the music of the 1940s. 50s, and early 60s, and stop right there. Don't even consider what happened musically after the death of say someone like John Coltrane. Forget about delving into jazz and improvised music and musicians from Europe, Africa, and the Pacific rim. Forget about what came out of the Avant-garde and more open ended ways of playing in the 1970s, 80s, 90, and early 21st century. Recreating is in vogue and creating is swept under the rug.
Very true. Our local academy runs jazz courses but turns out what I would call classical jazz musicians. Rehearsals of older numbers are carried out with a slavish adherence to the recorded articulation and feel that would surprise even classical musicians. It's an orthodoxy that seems to be gaining ground.
there is an interesting you tube clip of a discussion between Wynton Marsalis and Herbie Hancock which sort of displays the argument between orthodoxy against innovation
That orthodoxy is a sort of rigidity we seem to be noticing in all fields these days. Even in the classical world it doesnтАЩt serve the interests of the young musicians, just serves s lockstep, lockdown, mentality. Too bad as the whole point of music is learning the language of creativity.
Wow, glad our younger musicians arenтАЩt exposed to this. But then again most of the really good musicians play the work of others first and then develop their own independence in composition, songwriting, musicianship and recording. Really talented ones go there own way ASAP but never forget the fundamentals.
Tim Berne, Cecil Taylor, Ornette Coleman, Lester Bowie, never really spent much time at all learning the "jazz fundamentals". The idea that one must first learn the American song book and a number of classic jazz compositions to eventually develop your own ideas and creativity is something I have serious doubts about.
Oh, I strongly agree with that. I have seen talented young musicians be ruined by overly stressing theory, exact interpretations of written or previously performed music. The true musician will learn to be faithful to their own creativity. Not until they discover that can they become the musician their talent supports. But a truly talented and inspired musician will always apply their own stamp to the work of others. Rote memorization has its role but only as an adjunct to the inspiration offered by the individual.
I just think of it as good taste. They listened to all the classic rock, roots & blues, jazz and much more growing up. When you work with real musicians it is difficult to find great music they don't like and understand. I just love their enthusiasm for all the music of our now very wounded culture. Gives me hope & trust! I listen to more current stuff than they do - Tyler Childers, Colter Wall. War & Treaty, Jason Isbell, Whiskey Meyers, etc. Interesting phenomenon. There will be more out from our artists & their opinions whenever they get around to recording.
Yes, raw creativity is always out there, as well as iconoclasts who go their own way and sometimes mine a new treasure trove of innovation. But the question is whether the market feeds these new innovators or starves them. Digital formats have been feeding the creativity with new tools for creativity, but starving the artists in the marketplace.
All true. At least the process in an interesting and valuable pursuit. Luckily most of the musicians out there (not necessarily the business people) are quick to recognize & respect talent in others. I have a curious faith that good music will get through as people really need the stories and information sweetened by the music which bypasses much over rated thought. We need geniuses as musicians, fans, engineers, equipment experts, and as graphic artists and promoters.