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Dheep''s avatar

"That’s the closest thing to a coffin you can find on wheels."

Amazing . That is exactly what it is like. I will forever see one as that now ...

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Marcy Klatt's avatar

Even raccoons try to break into this vehicle thinking it is a dumpster. It is just an odd and ugly design.

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David Campbell's avatar

LMAO this is the funniest observation I’ve heard about it! Thank you 😄

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Chris Patten's avatar

From an odd and ugly man.

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Ken Johnston's avatar

In one 👌🏼and I don’t only find it ugly I find it threatening. It is monstrous.

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John Harvey's avatar

Just stick a robotic Death-Ray gun on the roof and it is the perfect Sci-Fi death machine.

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Cheryl's avatar

Every time I see one it enrages me, that a person could possibly foist that amount of ugly on the public. And now I also see a coffin!

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Stefano Boscutti's avatar

Given the number of deaths in Teslas due to fires and autopilot, it's literally a coffin on wheels.

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Deep Turning's avatar

This is sad too, aa the earlier Tesla designs were elegant: Roadster, Model S, Model 3. But as Elon has exerted more influence on design ... the results have certainly suffered.

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Vic King's avatar

We circle-danced at our wedding. Love a good circle. And yet... this also reminds me of a contrarian Chesterton quote:

“As we have taken the circle as a symbol of reason and madness, we may very well take the cross as a symbol at once of mystery and health. Buddhism is centripetal, but Christianity is centrifugal: it breaks out. For the circle is perfect and infinite in its nature; but it is fixed for ever in its size; it can never be larger or smaller. But the cross, though it has at its head a collision and a contradiction, can extend its four arms for ever without altering its shape. Because is has a paradox in its center it can grow without changing. The circle returns upon itself and is bound. The cross opens its arms to the four winds; it is a signpost for free travelers.”

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David Burkett's avatar

There's a problem with applying Chesterton here. His cross is an idea. It's a conceptualized version of a shape as a symbol of a way of faith. People dancing in a circle is an action. It's something people do together in the world. I'd like to hold hands and dance in a circle with others. I'm not sure what I would do in the paradox at the center of Chesterton's cross, and whatever I might do there doesn't seem to involve others.

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Ken Garcia's avatar

A better way to think about a “closed” circle, and an excellent image, IMO, for the centrifugal nature of Christianity is the spiral with a stationary center. It’s not a perfect circle, but it can expand infinitely, sublating more and more into itself.

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John Harvey's avatar

The circle could get larger. If it represents infinity, how could it be constrained by a dimension, or even a shape? Or any kind of preconception? The idea of infinity is just the idea of it.

Even in the limited form of the circle dance, people could always join the circle, as long as space permits. Space would be the coming factor.

But religious symbolism doesn't map 1 to 1 with dance configurations. Anyway, literally holding hands with others is a pretty concrete instance of joining, so why worry? You can't do that over the iPhone...

I was at an event recently where the people were so happy they actually starting dancing! Yes, in a circle, but I forget which way they were going. Who cares? They were so happy they couldn't contain it, they had to express it. Nobody dances like that in any church I know of. Maybe the Quakers, or some charismatic sect?

If you have ever seen a "healing" service in a church, the people lose their inhibitions, fall down on the floor and shake. Shaking also happens in meditation, when you go deep. Shaking is not the goal, it is just what happens when you let go. You often notice the head shaking left and right, and then up and down, like a "No" becoming a "Yes." Have a look at this incredible example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJi6maTueSc

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John Harvey's avatar

Recall that Dante's Inferno is composed of the Circles of Hell.

There's circles, and then there's circles.

Likewise the swastika as a symbol was in use long before the Nazi party appropriated it, including by Buddhists and Hindus, among others.

Then there are the double helix, the spiral, the infinity symbol, the Omega symbol...

The special thing about circles and the infinity symbol (or "figure 8") is they have no beginnings or ends.

How do you visually represent the unseeable?

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Henriette Lazaridis's avatar

Interesting piece. I will add Greek dances to your collection here. They are all circular, all counter-clockwise, and still taught and practiced--especially at summer festivals.

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Charles Faris's avatar

I spent three years dancing those circle dances while I was in high school. I miss them dearly.

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Cheryl's avatar

We danced them in the Greek festival here in Charleston this spring! Audience participation is so fun, even when the dancers (like me) had no idea what they were doing.

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Hummingbear's avatar

Lots of good ideas here. Only I can't grok your attempt to explain why counterclockwise (widdershins) circling is favored. Actually, dancing in a widdershins circle means starting with a step to the right.

I first encountered circle dances in a college folk dance class, mostly from the Balkans, and indeed they almost always circle widdershins. Many years later, I saw a 4000-year old sculpture in a museum in Crete, depicting dancers circling with the exact same hand-holding pattern we were taught. That's cultural continuity!

While we're at it, why are racetrack ovals always followed counterclockwise, as well?

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Treekllr's avatar

My guess is, sitting on the left, you have a better view turning left than right.

But idk, do they race the other way in places they sit on the right?

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John Harvey's avatar

Maybe the reason counterclockwise is more typical is that to turn that way we push off from our right leg and foot, which on most people is their dominant side, same as their hand.

Like Indy racers, track runners and speedskaters always turn to the left. In figure skating, lefties tend to spin or jump clockwise. They are in the minority. I am one of them!

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David Roberts's avatar

At Jewish weddings the big dance is the Horah, a big circle sometimes of most of the guests holding hands and then smaller concentric circles inside.

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Daisy Moses Chief Crackpot's avatar

Yup! addin' more--so I have a dear friend who is Orthodox (but UNOrthodox Orthodox with a full hedda hair an' she dresses "boho"...) an' one evenin' a few years ago (prior to "covidcon") she invited me & my youngest daughter (who is close friends with her own daughter) to an Orthodox RAVE on the UWS at her shul. Started mebbe 9pm? ALL CIRCLE DANCES! We did clockwise an' counter-clockwise an' "svitched directions" frequently--such a blast! Sometimes concentric circles were made! Sometimes we made a snake like pass thru one ta form a bigger one... Zo fun! I just followed our friends!

I grew up doin' the hora at every weddin'/bar/bas mitzvah but a RAVE? It was completely NOT on my chewish radar, this eggzisted?!

Littles (kids), mamas, papas, some gran'parents too! an' a LOT of young "ready ta court" 20-sumthin's or nearly so. It was hip even tho' the dressin' was modest-chic. I think some boys had flasks tho lol! The klezmer-like band just ROCKED--some riffs on old tunes I recognized a rockin' Tumbalilaika?!--but it was SO dang fun, us all schvitzin' but not wantin' ta stop. (Bottle water was freely distributed!)

So far far beyond the Hora there are all these other jooish circle dances! (who knew?) but the young'uns knew all the schteps, when to kick, when to grapevine, when ta clap, when ta go forward & back--an' everyone "raved" together. L'chaim! I was gobsmacked!

We left NYShitty when it all turned inta a burnin' dumpster an' now live in what I call the "land with no gefilte aisle in the grocery" but THAT rave was sumthin' I'd do again (an' again!) if I could--never thought I'd be glad ta see hundreds runnin' circles around me! (never thought I'd be so inspired ta keep up!)

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Michael Tenzer's avatar

Great story Thanks for sharing

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Pam Reese's avatar

Thank you for sharing your story. I am there in the room with you as you describe it!

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David Swift's avatar

Came here to say this!

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Alma Drake's avatar

Ah, I have resented the proliferation of round-a-bouts in my area recently - until now! The are circles where we at least drive our rectangular cars in a counter-clockwise direction!

I love it, and indeed we need more curves and circles in our lives. The community choir I work with (The Family Folk Machine) rehearses in a great big arc now, because so many people want to sing! and we do look like we're having a lot of fun. I'm intrigued by the idea of ring dances and circle dances as community building opportunities. We have a lot of community sings here, and the ones I have attended have all spontaneously ended up in big semi-circles. People may find straight lines reassuring, but when they are in a right-brain space, they gravitate into circles.

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Derek Dick's avatar

In Dundee Scotland we call them Circles. The whole world it seems, call them roundabouts. And in the UK we also drive on the left.

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Charles Faris's avatar

In New England, we call them rotaries.

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Charles Faris's avatar

They’re building rotaries in Iowa city? That’s awesome!

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Alma Drake's avatar

Coralville is crazy for them.

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Charles Faris's avatar

I love it! The first time I drove in one of those was when I left Iowa and moved to Boston 23 years ago. They were a little scary for about a week and then I really absorbed the awesomeness of how they work. Whenever the cars hit a rotary, it’s like they are schools of fish.

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Andrea La Rose's avatar

A good source for doing these kinds of dances: https://folkdancefootnotes.org/

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Chris Mallow's avatar

Very interesting concept! However, I would suggest the "health" of a culture is largely subjective here. Those same societies that held these circle dances also were incredibly brutal and violent and constantly warred against their neighboring tribes and peoples. In fact, I would almost see this argument, this comparison of the old "circle dance" in contrast to the "linear" modern world as nothing more than another example of the "noble savage" argument. I think you like the idea of everything being "communal" without recognizing the downside (yes, I know "downside" isn't circular, but that's important here): "communal" requires not an "opposite" like the Tao suggests, but an "other", and that "other", regardless of the circle, is always your enemy and must be destroyed. History has played that out in every region of the world, among all ethnicities. It still plays out to this very day, outside of the Western "linear" world, in areas where circle dances would be and likely are still practiced widely. Would you likewise suggest that is "healthy"?

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David Palmer's avatar

I agree. I don't care how healthy Ted thinks those African communities were, I wouldn't want to live in one. It's too easy to idealise tribal societies because we've forgotten - or dismiss for ideological purposes - their propensity for war and slavery. But what I take from Ted's talk is the need for balance. There is a time for circles and a time for straight lines (and, as one commenter here pointed out, a time for spirals). We do have too many straight lines. But it would be a mistake to go all circular. Balance is what is needed.

I would add that we're also talking about the masculine and feminine principles. We live in a masculine-dominated culture - so masculine-dominated that feminists demanded that women should have the right to act like men. I'm not convinced that changing to an exclusively feminine culture would be an improvement; it would only change the problems. Again, we need a balance.

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Anne Emerson Hall's avatar

To look at it another way, in a world where a tribe was vulnerable to being warred against, if a circle dance promoted community, it was also a survival mechanism.

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Chris Mallow's avatar

From a strictly humanistic evolutionary standpoint, EVERYTHING is a survival mechanism. We're not lemmings running en masse off cliffs. In fact, given modern humanity's greater general advantages from a survival standpoint than that of the prior millennia, I would argue linear thinking has proven more successful than circular thinking.

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Treekllr's avatar

I think it must be healthy, for humans, bc we've always done it, and even when we changed to something more linear, the destruction of "others" remained, albeit changed(for the worse).

In fact it seems to be so fundamental for us im struggling to think of any good example of us *without* "others". Certainly none that lasted very long.

Bc there is *always* "others". There can never be a real "oneness" for us. Changing that requires evolution, bc we are hardwired this way.

If health is based on successfulness, then yeah its healthy.

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Chris Mallow's avatar

But we evolved AWAY from circles to linear concepts. We also now have longer lifespans, greater knowledge of the actual nature of the universe, broader socioeconomic opportunity, and generally less hunger and war. In terms of "success," I would argue that modern Western linear brought us to that state, not circles.

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Treekllr's avatar

I dont disagree. My point was, whether circle or linear, destroying "others" has always been a part of us, we cant seem to exist without it, and must be necessary, and thus healthy.

But.. linear thinking made us much better at killing each other. Is that "healthy"? I guess for the winners it is.

Also, i dont know if i agree with "less hunger and war". When exactly has there been less war? Or you mean for some beneficiaries? Even so i would say our misery has only increased along with our lifespans.

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Melanie Williams de Amaya's avatar

I respectfully disagree. Linear thinking has assumed superiority over more circular minded/functioning societies, and failed to recognise the wisdom inherent in those cultures.

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Travis Huff's avatar

Mosh pits are circular and they move counterclockwise too 🎸🔊🔊🔊

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John Lumgair's avatar

That is such a good point, I wouldn't have noticed had you not pointed it out. Thanks.

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Jack B's avatar

"There are no straight lines in nature'

And he would be wrong,

spiders live in a world of straight lines. every web is is a collection of straight lines tied together. And gravity enforces straight lines. Gravity creates a straight line between every object and the center of the earth. Just 2 examples off the top of my head.

Circle dances are communal events but they are even more fun if you allow a bit of individualism in the center of the circle. Let members of the circle take turns show off their individual styles.

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craig nuttycombe's avatar

Ah, but when the spiders web made of straight lines is finished, it resembles a circle.

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Jack B's avatar

Yeah, in the abstract.

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Anne Emerson Hall's avatar

We have a certain spider active in our driveway at the moment, spinning lines from my car and my husband’s. Yet didn’t Charlotte’s Web suggest a circle as a sum of its parts?

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Jack B's avatar

Poor fellow, and I suppose you went and destroyed his creation this morning ;-). btw, I like spiders.

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Treekllr's avatar

You know your lines and circles, Jack B

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Indoor Camping's avatar

Lines are all we build, lines and boxes. It hurts my brain to think in circles. But that's where the growth is. The magic is a day without the shortest line between points, but finding new patterns, new links between all the points.

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Gretchen Joanna's avatar

The architect and philosopher Christopher Alexander showed us how to build houses that were not all straight lines and boxes, and I find his vision compelling — but don’t think anyone following his way could get a building permit.

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Treekllr's avatar

We are of one mind on this

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Jeff “H” Harrington's avatar

Fantastic post as always. I know you didn’t say this, but it brings this thought to mind for me -

Circles bring us into our hearts.

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Dreaming of a song...'s avatar

"There are no straight lines in nature..." - Neil Peart

This hit me years ago after watching this fascinating video:

https://youtu.be/qFNoIGO4PKU?si=S2uX7HvoxqX3Ax2J

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Phil Dynan's avatar

Interesting. While my world is not linear (I live remotely), there are only two places where I have seen the curvature of the Earth. One place was in the Tigray region of Eritrea; the other is when I am standing in the middle of the Black Rock Desert (Nevada). Nice writing - loved your assessment of the Musk vehicle.

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Wanda's avatar

"There are no straight lines in nature, [Iain] McGilchrist points out, except for the horizon."

There are plenty of straight lines in nature: orthorhombic crystalline structures, for example, are everywhere.

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e.c.'s avatar

In snowflakes, for example. Straight lines, angles and circles all in one.

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John Harvey's avatar

A better idea may be that straight lines are hard to find in biology, not in all of nature. Geometry is full of straight lines, as well as curves. Fractals that start out as straight lines create all manner of shapes. But even the strongest metal will bend into a curve when a force such as gravity acts on it. Likewise for telephone and power lines.

The Cybertruck has a coefficient of drag of .34, which is not great. My '88 Honda CRX was already down to .29. But then, it wasn't bulletproof stainless steel, which some people seem to think is needed, for some reason. However, what will the owner do if Tesla decides to send a signal to it bricking it? A brick has a cd of 1.16, so you lose.

The slipperiest "vehicle" known is the dolphin, which has a cd of 0.0036, although that number is measured differently from that of vehicles. It is still incredibly good. It is a very rounded, slippery shape.

Nature will tell designers how to design. They cannot overcome nature.

The horizon that looks straight at ground level is revealed to be part of a curve when seen from space.

Here is a pendulum wave. Is it chaotic, or orderly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8O1jlHyKpU

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Alex Valentine's avatar

Seems a bit reductionist. Both curves and straight lines have their place. If you want to get anything done you need to shoot for a destination--a line, so to speak--but be aware you'll very likely take detours--'thrown a curve'--and end up somewhere near your goal but not your goal. Such is the nature of life.

Oh and a Tesla Cybertruck? I get a headache every time I see one on the road. And I hate that that's intentional on the part of the designers. Trolls with rulers...

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