Glad to be involved in body/sense activities (graffiti, swing dance, martial arts, Daoist practice) that can't be AI-ed into oblivion. Glad to have grown up in a primarily analog world.
Im not sure i see the absurdity and paradox about the wizard of oz. Theyre selling an experience(not just an old movie), something people are becoming desperate to have. For older generations, its their childhood merged with "the future". And it is a pretty classic movie, so i can see why younger audiences may enjoy it. It was fun then, why wouldnt it be now? And the sphere itself is a draw, a pretty unique theatre experience. If hollywood was making something worth paying good money to see, im sure itd do well at the sphere too. So idk, makes perfect sense to me
Perhaps the paradox is this - where can I see the original version on the big screen? Hundreds of millions of dollars are flowing into Vegas, but if this movie is such a classic, shouldn't it get screened every now and again in original format?
All of this money and effort went into updating a film/ creating an experience, and since it only exists at the Sphere it can only be seen by a relatively small number of people. So folks not living in or travelling to Vegas are left with ... Weren't movies pop culture that was accessible almost everywhere? The money to update Wizard of Oz didn't go into creating a new movie that lots of people could see. It didn't go into making the original movie accessible on the big screen. I'm not against the Oz idea, but it seems like turning a century old, accessible experience - a movie - into a rare, expensive good.
Wasn't going to a movie an experience in it's own right? I saw Dark Side/ Wizard of Oz mashup on a date one time. Meh option, but worth trying. I stumbled upon Almost Famous with zero idea about the film and was blown away (Fever Dooooog!). Titanic in theatre blew my 13-year old mind - it looked and sounded incredible. Star Wars Episode 1 - second night show with oodles of people in costume and one guy had already seen it five times. Heck, I loved watching Snakes on a Plane with a pumped up audience cheering, laughing, jeering.
I live in a city of 500k. Not a cultural mecca. Miles away from the bright lights of a big city. But it's a university town and has an artsy scene. The last single screen theatre (beautiful building) is now a rock climbing gym and cafe/ brewery (all great spots). There's a long-running indie group that screens films at the natural history museum. Good on 'em. We used to have smaller theatres (4 screens, 6 screens, etc.) but they've got consolidated into a small number of big venues (12 screen, 15 screens, etc.). Only one is downtown, and I'm assuming it will close shortly. And the odd time I do go to a movie, it's often a let down. Are you trying to give me the shittiest experience possible to watch Moana 2? I'm an adult - why can't I buy a beer? Why is the food THAT terrible? With 15 theatres and thousands of people you can't do any better than sugary snacks and the saddest fast food/ gas station hot dogs imaginable? (I don't want Michelin star dining, but offer something closer to decent pub food maybe). I paid money and you are showing me endless ads before the show! Why are the ads THAT loud?
Ok, so that rant shows I'm a cranky middle age dude ...
Im right there with you on the cranky middle agedness. And pretty much everything else you said. I too was blown away by titanic as a young lad(saw it 3 times, twice by myself lol, not something im usually willing to admit, but i guess by now the stigma has faded;).
But i still dont view the sphere/oz thing as a paradox. Its really a different thing than a "normal" movie going experience. So ofc the first movie theatre was once the *only* theatre. They built more, perhaps theyll build more spheres. And i dont even think 200 is too much to pay.. at least, ive paid more for less in this world. If i was near vegas id go see it. But not to compare it to a more traditional viewing of oz, but just to see what its all about.
We rarely get cool new things anymore. Ik that sounds ridiculous in our modern age, but phones ruined everything. If not for phones, people wouldnt be so content doing nothing, and we'd be trying harder to make cool things to go do(and make them affordable).
So if that side of culture is dying, its our own fault. If we could somehow disappear phones, it wouldnt be long before all sorts of cool shit would be on offer. But why go to that trouble when people are happy to scroll away their lives? Thats easy money there(and ofc its money that drives everything, but thats been true for a long time, even when the first speakies came out). Our lack of "cool shit to do" is the very reason the cool shit is becoming a more premium experience, and that lack of cool shit *is* our own fault. Nothing changes(at least for the better for us) until we see that. And as ive said before, what theyre really taking from us is our ability, or maybe capability, to choose. Now we get giant douche or turd sandwich type of choices, and they know we'll choose one or both bc we "need, *need*, NEED" what they serve up.
I agree. I watched the embedded video and the appeal of the project made immediate sense. It's also a good example of AI done right, since usage of AI technology was integral to the whole project, but it is clearly guided by artistic vision and not a piece of slop. I could totally see myself seriously considering shelling out the 200 bucks for such a once-in-a-lifetime experience, were Las Vegas somewhat near me.
Start liking it. "Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvelously: for I will work a work in your days which ye will not believe, though it be told you." Habbakuk 1:5
Thanks, Feral Finster! Habbakuk was the kitchen boy in the Bible who was bringing some lunch to the farmhands, met an Angel on the way to the fields, who transported him by the hair of his head to give the lunch to Daniel in the lion’s den in Babylon. He has the skinniest book in the Bible, but I have faith that once you’ve met up with an Angel, you don’t waste words.
I thought the whole point about Luddites was that they objected to having their WORK taken away from them. So to be a Luddite is the opposite of being lazy. But I expect this female creature,being of our contemporary world has had all or any brain power she ever had shagged out of her by the liberal sexual freedom to whore themselves her sort demand the right to impose on everyone else.
TV in Australia showed heavy advertising for the new series (or movie, who cares), ‘Mafia, the Old Country’. All characters, and scenes, everything is AI generated. It’s laughable, it looks so extraordinarily cheap and empty! The title is also telling, typical AI not understanding culture at all. I wonder how many people will watch that crap but people watch Real Housewives too.
While driving in North Savo, Finland, I tuned in to my local radio channel called "Järviradio Puhe" (Lake-radio Talk). We've had talk radio channels closed because of low listenership, so I jumped at the chance to listen to a new one.
There was a podcast-kind-of show going, an interview of sorts. A man and a woman were discussing recent legislature changes. Ok, I'll get some journalistic insight into politics, great.
After a while, I noticed the mechanistic way they were speaking and the uncanny valley of their not-quite-natural voices and tones. I realized the channel was turning recent government publications into AI-hosted podcasts. So much for journalistic insight!
Fascinated, I listened for a while. Ok, it beats reading the docs themselves, but that's it. No outside views, no discussion of the topics, nothing to set it in context.
So yeah, the slop has come for our radio waves as well.
While I enjoy the industry critiques, I subscribed to The Honest Broker for the MUSIC - new music recommendations, music criticism, world musics and other ethnomusicological topics. If they disappear, I disappear.
The one recent projected use of AI which I was cheered by is the plan of some ghastly conglomerate to AI the lost forty - five minutes of The Magnificent Ambersons. Welles' daughter, Beatrice, seems to be the hangup, for what appears to be a financial reason.
If it happens they will be working from Welles' shooting script. It could be a marvel.
Other than that, AI is of the Devil, and we all know it.
ouch! nah, notta marvel... The LOSS of the Magnificent Ambersons is tragic but to conFECT in AI even 5 minutes (let alone 45) is a crime, notta marvel. I hope Beatrice holds out (on principle)... tho' lord knows she might need the money given her poor daddy was treated so badly by Hollyweird in his later days he had ta hawk cheap "Paul Masson" wine (there is no wine before it's time)...may he RIP
as fer AI bein' the devil (!) jus said so m'self (my kid changed majors in college after larnin' she'd "have to" use AI!)
This is the one kind of use of AI which doesn't bother me, Daisy. Everyone knows The Magnificent Ambersons is a movie. No one will think that they're seeing something real. If you have watched the version which exists, and it sounds as if you are familiar with it, indeed, you know how jarring the ending is. Remember, they would be working from Welles' shooting script.
Somebody using that shooting script actually did an animation of the last five minutes or so of the movie. This was a few years ago. It was fascinating. It was shown as part of a lecture a Welles biographer gave.
I don't remember the title of the video, but if you go to YouTube and put in something like "Orson Welles frustrated genius The Magnificent Ambersons", you'll probably be able to find it.
I didn't know 'bout the animations... if they are like the croquis I sawr they'd be fine as an animated "sketch restoration" fer the missin' parts -- https://www.instagram.com/p/CcBDDb2uv8_/? --they could show what's missin' but without bringin' back the dead (re-animatin' the actors, diggy-tally puttin' together voices usin' AI to replicate 'em). Ta do that's too creepy an' I think....not right. I'd be good with the sketches bein' used, animated too (even in full stop motion) & real actors doin' the lines in sync with the animation but not with a fake (F is for Fake lol) AI of all 45 min. I think Welles would be boomin' loudly in objection (usin' a few cherce words from the grave!) 'bout what they got wrong.
So I think the balance is to try ta use all scripts, documents, elements to do the full 45 min in black & white animation (an' again, I like the style of the above link) but not ta "bring back the dead." You & I an' some film fans DO know the original (an' love it even with all the surgery scars/lapses...) but many will be new to it when seein' it restored. They won't be able ta tell what is real... or imitated later.... So imho the AI fakery is just wrong-think. That's b/c it can be done to imitate closely thus there's a danger of mistakin' what is restored... for what is original.
I'm surprised to this day how many saw only the doctor'd version of Metropolis (with the colored sections) an' mistake it for the original (color tintin' was, of course, sumthin' they did but Metropolis wuz never tinted)....
Anywhoo... when a museum piece or statue has missin' parts an' they need to fill 'em in or replace 'em--they make SURE to do so in a way that still allows the viewer ta appreciate the whole, so color an' shape an' materials are used very mindful of not bein' "distractions" BUT the golden rule is to NOT make the fixes seamless--so any eye even the most untrained one can tell there's a patch, a bit filled in, etc. I really like that way of doin' stuff...it honors the original but makes no pretense 'bout representin' it as a "whole" so some might be fooled...
Years ago when paintin's were restored, the "expurts" used their resources an' painted-in areas that had peeled or chipped off, etc. Fast forward to Xrays an' other such plus (at times) findin' an original sketch or mock-up an' it was discovered the "restorations" were full -out wrong.... Much had ta be undone but often as not the damage was done ta the point of not bein' possible ta reverse without harm--not just to the original (which with Ambersons would be, I assume, left pristine...) but also to the proliferation of the wrong imagery... All the books which reproduced the sheep whar the haystack should'a been...
Sorry this got kinda long--but what I'm sayin' is that AI shouldn't be "raisin' the dead" but I'm all fer sketches an' animation to be used to try to "envision" what Welles had in mind.... which kin be both entertainin' an' watchable an' not try ta ta erase the loss in makin' that great work seamlessly whole...
Since I don't have a say in the matter (haha), I guess we'll have ta wait 'til it comes out fer the verdict.... If ONLY the footage (or some funky print) is out there...in an attic... heppened with Dreyer so ya never know!
lol, an' thanks from a crackpot that sum'times duz like ta be taken "seriously" ;-) -- The STORY is amazin' but it gives me hope that "magnificent footage" thought ta be lost/destroyed... can be recovered.
"In 1981, someone working at the Dikemark Hospital randomly found multiple canisters of film in a janitor’s closet...." a JANITOR's CLOSET in a mental asylum!
FWIW Dreyer's Joan IS da best, a blessin' it was found!... the Preminger one is sadly...uneven...(Jean Seberg couldn't act an' she kinda needed ta do so to carry the lead role!... Gielgud is fantastic tho!).... an' unintentionally strange (poor Richard Widmark!...why?!)
Zo... here's the thang... the Norwegian Film Instytoot had tried, usin' all sorts of old prints of Dreyer's "Joan" an' writin's, etc. to FAITHFULLY restore a print that could be distributed. That was the first version I'd seen--an' it's powerful fer sure BUT when the original "cut" was found it turned out that the Norwegian Film Instytoot's "faithful" restoration was WRONG in lotsa places... (whoops) they "tried"... So now mebbe it makes sense WHY (too) I think that "faithfully restorin' Welles" usin' seamless AI with all good intent... is not the best idear as nobuddy kin guess EVEN what really ended up in that director's cut--even goin' with all that's in the script! Again, with Joan they had actual footage AND script notes...an' they still got it wrong...
Likely as it sounds like yer a film fan too!, ya know that stuff changes "on set"--some'a the best moments of inspiration are not "in the script" an' sumtimes in the cuttin' room the "order" of shots in the shootin' script also changes--plans are swell an' inspiration sometimes makes the unplanned just as swell!
So that's also why I say givin' it a good ol' college try with an animated version (I like the style chosen, it ain't cheesy at least!) works reasonably Well(es) as it makes it clear that it's a "guesswork" an' not a seamless "faithful" restoration.... Thx fer yer com-mint Bobby, I wouldn't'a known 'bout that animator ;-)
Daisy, I found it. It's from The Free Library of Philadelphia channel. It's called, "Orson Welles: The Genius Who Couldn't Do Anything Right." Those several minutes of animation are spooky.
Bobby, thats how it always goes.. "this thing is horrible, *but*.. if they did *this* with it, thatd be ok". After that its just moving that line until everything is on the "right"(wrong) side of it.
Ill admit im guilty of it too. Js, that is how it goes down.
Stalking wolf used to say he never met an ugly witch
Treekllr, I think people can be intelligent enough to use things with care and discretion. I agree that AI is a terrible threat, but the same could be said of a box of matches. The vast majority of people don't become arsonists.
I do think that Congress needs to pass new laws governing what AI can be used for, and that should be very little. Or we could just destroy The Machine.
There are a lot of days when I wish film and sound recording had never been invented. Consider how much more literate and how much more musical the entire world would be.
If you don't know Paul Kingsnorth's work you might want to. He writes a Substack, The Abbey of Misrule, and has a new book coming in a few days. You can get acquainted with him by watching his YouTube channel.
1.sadly, I don't trust Big Gubbamint ta pass laws "governin' AI" to reign it in--their "laws" have allowed our food supply ta be poisoned (& our lands wrecked) an' fer genetically engineered 'skeeters ta be released on the pop-u-last to eliminate... the skeeter bein' a key pollinator no less!... an' other such. Our telecommunications are all hacked/wartched an' 5G cell towers allowed by the FCC, so I'm not sure about Big Gubbamint reignin' in "the enemy" that's AI...
2. but it ain't like a match--people KNOW what it is to be burned, the pain the destruction, the disfiguration, the loss so they DO (mostly) use matches wisely... fire goes back a long way too (haha) but AI, see, they do NOT see the danger. They do NOT "handle with care" nor "care & discretion." They're already goin' hogwild fer AI an' they don't see the damage--no visible blisters, they cannot see that their own words kin be deep faked! In skools (jus' wrote 'bout this re mah younger daughter at college--she changed majors to avoid the AI demon! https://thcsofdaisymoses.substack.com/p/tragedy-ai-has-infected-the-hollowed ) AI is near-ubiquitous. Kids doin' their homework via AI--an' larnin' zip as a result! Matches are life-essentials & will near-always be treated with the mindfulness they deserve--AI ain't essential an' in fact it's life-destroyin' (don't see no upside) an' will near-always be treated as...benign. There's the rub! (I wish we human beans were as careful & mindful as we'd hope us all ta be lol)
"I think people can be intelligent enough to use things with care and discretion."
Really? Where have you been for the past 20 years? Wheres the discretion in peoples phone/internet usage? *A* person, sure. But us as a whole? No. Box of matches? More like heroin. And we give it to everybody, even the kids. Caring seems like an antiquated notion, and discretion goes out the window when nobodies watching.
But really im not wanting to rehash the ai debate. I was just pointing out that thats how they get us, even when we *dont* like what theyre peddling. Theres always a "but for this" that worms its way into our resolve, and in the end, we lose.
It really doesnt matter what we think of ai. Its here. The guardrails are practically nonexistent. It *will* infest all our lives. Thats it, thats the end of the debate. We're relegated to commentary, we are no longer a force to be reckoned with. Bc theyve already sapped our will. Now its just we get what they give us, bc everybody *NEEDS* their shit. We are their junkies, they own us. If theres intelligence, care, and discretion in there, i dont see it.
Hey, treekller, I want to restrict AI like a fourteen year old boy who is forced to wear a pair of underpants meant for a ten year old. He's going to be bugeyed with constrictedness all day.
I'm all in favor of whatever it might take in the form of international law, if it could even be done, to rein in AI. But I am not bothered by its use in the arts as long as the public is informed that it has been used.
Oh. We see that differently. I see it like phones, and by the time we know the dangers itll already have wrought its havoc upon us. All this tech is something thats done *to* us, consequences be damned.
But ai is a new corner, bc this time not everybody is eager to have it. Sadly, our choice in the matter is dwindling fast.
And thats why i said, it really doesnt matter what we think of ai. Like it or not, it will be everywhere. To me, its "use in the arts" is small potatoes, just a way to get its toe in the door, and keep us busy while the real ai work is happening. When ai surveillance becomes a thing(and it will), we'll miss the days when we bickered about ai generated whatever. Mark my words.
Take seriously what I said about my lamenting that movies and sound recording were ever invented. Every day, I pick up this phone and the thought of looking at email makes me wish I could faint to be out of the horror, the horror.
We're all going to fill up our free time with something. Twenty years ago, it was books and music for me. It still is but I won't lie to you and say that smartphones haven't encroached considerably on it.
Miles Davis didn’t sell out. His family did. But it doesn’t matter because one can still find transcendence through his art, regardless of who owns and markets its current distribution.
An' shame on that fambly.... I hope ta gorsh they don't make Miles "zing again" in AI.... it'd be beyond cringe! (Havin' seen some celebs re-in-CORN-nated like Frankenstein, includin' the "Beatles"--it's not just tacky--it's...digital skullduggery!) I worry.... may Miles' music live on but may he RIP not in "bytes"
Thought I’d take another look at Habbakuk: 1:3 “Destruction and violence are before me; there is strife and conflict abounds. Therefor the Law is paralyzed and Justice never prevails. The wicked hem in the righteous, so that Justice is perverted.” Habbakuk 2:4 “See, he is puffed up; his desires are not upright..:5:” Indeed, wine betrays him, he is arrogant and never at rest. Because he is as greedy as the Grave…” Greedy is the pivot here. A signature of our art forms and Time.
Really? I thought that was already getting tired:/ Like everything else, its glutted, and so its become rare for me to see a tattoo that makes me take notice.
Prison tats on the other hand.. what they can do with primitive tattooing tools is impressive
…can we force the ceo of that podcast startup to listen to all infinity of them for the rest of their days?…
Glad to be involved in body/sense activities (graffiti, swing dance, martial arts, Daoist practice) that can't be AI-ed into oblivion. Glad to have grown up in a primarily analog world.
Im not sure i see the absurdity and paradox about the wizard of oz. Theyre selling an experience(not just an old movie), something people are becoming desperate to have. For older generations, its their childhood merged with "the future". And it is a pretty classic movie, so i can see why younger audiences may enjoy it. It was fun then, why wouldnt it be now? And the sphere itself is a draw, a pretty unique theatre experience. If hollywood was making something worth paying good money to see, im sure itd do well at the sphere too. So idk, makes perfect sense to me
Perhaps the paradox is this - where can I see the original version on the big screen? Hundreds of millions of dollars are flowing into Vegas, but if this movie is such a classic, shouldn't it get screened every now and again in original format?
All of this money and effort went into updating a film/ creating an experience, and since it only exists at the Sphere it can only be seen by a relatively small number of people. So folks not living in or travelling to Vegas are left with ... Weren't movies pop culture that was accessible almost everywhere? The money to update Wizard of Oz didn't go into creating a new movie that lots of people could see. It didn't go into making the original movie accessible on the big screen. I'm not against the Oz idea, but it seems like turning a century old, accessible experience - a movie - into a rare, expensive good.
Wasn't going to a movie an experience in it's own right? I saw Dark Side/ Wizard of Oz mashup on a date one time. Meh option, but worth trying. I stumbled upon Almost Famous with zero idea about the film and was blown away (Fever Dooooog!). Titanic in theatre blew my 13-year old mind - it looked and sounded incredible. Star Wars Episode 1 - second night show with oodles of people in costume and one guy had already seen it five times. Heck, I loved watching Snakes on a Plane with a pumped up audience cheering, laughing, jeering.
I live in a city of 500k. Not a cultural mecca. Miles away from the bright lights of a big city. But it's a university town and has an artsy scene. The last single screen theatre (beautiful building) is now a rock climbing gym and cafe/ brewery (all great spots). There's a long-running indie group that screens films at the natural history museum. Good on 'em. We used to have smaller theatres (4 screens, 6 screens, etc.) but they've got consolidated into a small number of big venues (12 screen, 15 screens, etc.). Only one is downtown, and I'm assuming it will close shortly. And the odd time I do go to a movie, it's often a let down. Are you trying to give me the shittiest experience possible to watch Moana 2? I'm an adult - why can't I buy a beer? Why is the food THAT terrible? With 15 theatres and thousands of people you can't do any better than sugary snacks and the saddest fast food/ gas station hot dogs imaginable? (I don't want Michelin star dining, but offer something closer to decent pub food maybe). I paid money and you are showing me endless ads before the show! Why are the ads THAT loud?
Ok, so that rant shows I'm a cranky middle age dude ...
Im right there with you on the cranky middle agedness. And pretty much everything else you said. I too was blown away by titanic as a young lad(saw it 3 times, twice by myself lol, not something im usually willing to admit, but i guess by now the stigma has faded;).
But i still dont view the sphere/oz thing as a paradox. Its really a different thing than a "normal" movie going experience. So ofc the first movie theatre was once the *only* theatre. They built more, perhaps theyll build more spheres. And i dont even think 200 is too much to pay.. at least, ive paid more for less in this world. If i was near vegas id go see it. But not to compare it to a more traditional viewing of oz, but just to see what its all about.
We rarely get cool new things anymore. Ik that sounds ridiculous in our modern age, but phones ruined everything. If not for phones, people wouldnt be so content doing nothing, and we'd be trying harder to make cool things to go do(and make them affordable).
So if that side of culture is dying, its our own fault. If we could somehow disappear phones, it wouldnt be long before all sorts of cool shit would be on offer. But why go to that trouble when people are happy to scroll away their lives? Thats easy money there(and ofc its money that drives everything, but thats been true for a long time, even when the first speakies came out). Our lack of "cool shit to do" is the very reason the cool shit is becoming a more premium experience, and that lack of cool shit *is* our own fault. Nothing changes(at least for the better for us) until we see that. And as ive said before, what theyre really taking from us is our ability, or maybe capability, to choose. Now we get giant douche or turd sandwich type of choices, and they know we'll choose one or both bc we "need, *need*, NEED" what they serve up.
Ok ive done my cranky ranting as well...
I agree. I watched the embedded video and the appeal of the project made immediate sense. It's also a good example of AI done right, since usage of AI technology was integral to the whole project, but it is clearly guided by artistic vision and not a piece of slop. I could totally see myself seriously considering shelling out the 200 bucks for such a once-in-a-lifetime experience, were Las Vegas somewhat near me.
Start liking it. "Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvelously: for I will work a work in your days which ye will not believe, though it be told you." Habbakuk 1:5
Thanks, Feral Finster! Habbakuk was the kitchen boy in the Bible who was bringing some lunch to the farmhands, met an Angel on the way to the fields, who transported him by the hair of his head to give the lunch to Daniel in the lion’s den in Babylon. He has the skinniest book in the Bible, but I have faith that once you’ve met up with an Angel, you don’t waste words.
I was just thinking earlier today that I don’t know where to look for new paintings or sculpture or visual arts not on a screen.
I thought the whole point about Luddites was that they objected to having their WORK taken away from them. So to be a Luddite is the opposite of being lazy. But I expect this female creature,being of our contemporary world has had all or any brain power she ever had shagged out of her by the liberal sexual freedom to whore themselves her sort demand the right to impose on everyone else.
Damn jane... tell us how you really feel
The Sphere bowlderizing of 'The Wizard of Oz' is an atrocity for multiple reasons, including this one: https://gizmodo.com/the-wizard-of-oz-at-the-sphere-has-a-shocking-2-second-cameo-david-zaslav-2000650163
yep, a SIN-o-matic atrocity!---see the "ps" part've mah commint--
https://www.honest-broker.com/p/the-biggest-success-story-in-cinema/comment/154617107
OMG I just looked at yer link--David Zazlav replacin' extra's faces with his OWN? I'm jus' havin' a conniption...unEFFINbeelieveaBULL
The 1939 film is still under copyright by WB/Turner conglomerate. Therefore, changing the original in that manner is not allowed.
TV in Australia showed heavy advertising for the new series (or movie, who cares), ‘Mafia, the Old Country’. All characters, and scenes, everything is AI generated. It’s laughable, it looks so extraordinarily cheap and empty! The title is also telling, typical AI not understanding culture at all. I wonder how many people will watch that crap but people watch Real Housewives too.
While driving in North Savo, Finland, I tuned in to my local radio channel called "Järviradio Puhe" (Lake-radio Talk). We've had talk radio channels closed because of low listenership, so I jumped at the chance to listen to a new one.
There was a podcast-kind-of show going, an interview of sorts. A man and a woman were discussing recent legislature changes. Ok, I'll get some journalistic insight into politics, great.
After a while, I noticed the mechanistic way they were speaking and the uncanny valley of their not-quite-natural voices and tones. I realized the channel was turning recent government publications into AI-hosted podcasts. So much for journalistic insight!
Fascinated, I listened for a while. Ok, it beats reading the docs themselves, but that's it. No outside views, no discussion of the topics, nothing to set it in context.
So yeah, the slop has come for our radio waves as well.
While I enjoy the industry critiques, I subscribed to The Honest Broker for the MUSIC - new music recommendations, music criticism, world musics and other ethnomusicological topics. If they disappear, I disappear.
The one recent projected use of AI which I was cheered by is the plan of some ghastly conglomerate to AI the lost forty - five minutes of The Magnificent Ambersons. Welles' daughter, Beatrice, seems to be the hangup, for what appears to be a financial reason.
If it happens they will be working from Welles' shooting script. It could be a marvel.
Other than that, AI is of the Devil, and we all know it.
ouch! nah, notta marvel... The LOSS of the Magnificent Ambersons is tragic but to conFECT in AI even 5 minutes (let alone 45) is a crime, notta marvel. I hope Beatrice holds out (on principle)... tho' lord knows she might need the money given her poor daddy was treated so badly by Hollyweird in his later days he had ta hawk cheap "Paul Masson" wine (there is no wine before it's time)...may he RIP
as fer AI bein' the devil (!) jus said so m'self (my kid changed majors in college after larnin' she'd "have to" use AI!)
https://thcsofdaisymoses.substack.com/p/tragedy-ai-has-infected-the-hollowed
This is the one kind of use of AI which doesn't bother me, Daisy. Everyone knows The Magnificent Ambersons is a movie. No one will think that they're seeing something real. If you have watched the version which exists, and it sounds as if you are familiar with it, indeed, you know how jarring the ending is. Remember, they would be working from Welles' shooting script.
Somebody using that shooting script actually did an animation of the last five minutes or so of the movie. This was a few years ago. It was fascinating. It was shown as part of a lecture a Welles biographer gave.
I don't remember the title of the video, but if you go to YouTube and put in something like "Orson Welles frustrated genius The Magnificent Ambersons", you'll probably be able to find it.
I didn't know 'bout the animations... if they are like the croquis I sawr they'd be fine as an animated "sketch restoration" fer the missin' parts -- https://www.instagram.com/p/CcBDDb2uv8_/? --they could show what's missin' but without bringin' back the dead (re-animatin' the actors, diggy-tally puttin' together voices usin' AI to replicate 'em). Ta do that's too creepy an' I think....not right. I'd be good with the sketches bein' used, animated too (even in full stop motion) & real actors doin' the lines in sync with the animation but not with a fake (F is for Fake lol) AI of all 45 min. I think Welles would be boomin' loudly in objection (usin' a few cherce words from the grave!) 'bout what they got wrong.
So I think the balance is to try ta use all scripts, documents, elements to do the full 45 min in black & white animation (an' again, I like the style of the above link) but not ta "bring back the dead." You & I an' some film fans DO know the original (an' love it even with all the surgery scars/lapses...) but many will be new to it when seein' it restored. They won't be able ta tell what is real... or imitated later.... So imho the AI fakery is just wrong-think. That's b/c it can be done to imitate closely thus there's a danger of mistakin' what is restored... for what is original.
I'm surprised to this day how many saw only the doctor'd version of Metropolis (with the colored sections) an' mistake it for the original (color tintin' was, of course, sumthin' they did but Metropolis wuz never tinted)....
Anywhoo... when a museum piece or statue has missin' parts an' they need to fill 'em in or replace 'em--they make SURE to do so in a way that still allows the viewer ta appreciate the whole, so color an' shape an' materials are used very mindful of not bein' "distractions" BUT the golden rule is to NOT make the fixes seamless--so any eye even the most untrained one can tell there's a patch, a bit filled in, etc. I really like that way of doin' stuff...it honors the original but makes no pretense 'bout representin' it as a "whole" so some might be fooled...
Years ago when paintin's were restored, the "expurts" used their resources an' painted-in areas that had peeled or chipped off, etc. Fast forward to Xrays an' other such plus (at times) findin' an original sketch or mock-up an' it was discovered the "restorations" were full -out wrong.... Much had ta be undone but often as not the damage was done ta the point of not bein' possible ta reverse without harm--not just to the original (which with Ambersons would be, I assume, left pristine...) but also to the proliferation of the wrong imagery... All the books which reproduced the sheep whar the haystack should'a been...
Sorry this got kinda long--but what I'm sayin' is that AI shouldn't be "raisin' the dead" but I'm all fer sketches an' animation to be used to try to "envision" what Welles had in mind.... which kin be both entertainin' an' watchable an' not try ta ta erase the loss in makin' that great work seamlessly whole...
Since I don't have a say in the matter (haha), I guess we'll have ta wait 'til it comes out fer the verdict.... If ONLY the footage (or some funky print) is out there...in an attic... heppened with Dreyer so ya never know!
Anyone who knows Carl Dreyer is to be taken seriously by all.
lol, an' thanks from a crackpot that sum'times duz like ta be taken "seriously" ;-) -- The STORY is amazin' but it gives me hope that "magnificent footage" thought ta be lost/destroyed... can be recovered.
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/movie-discovered-mental-institution/
"In 1981, someone working at the Dikemark Hospital randomly found multiple canisters of film in a janitor’s closet...." a JANITOR's CLOSET in a mental asylum!
FWIW Dreyer's Joan IS da best, a blessin' it was found!... the Preminger one is sadly...uneven...(Jean Seberg couldn't act an' she kinda needed ta do so to carry the lead role!... Gielgud is fantastic tho!).... an' unintentionally strange (poor Richard Widmark!...why?!)
Zo... here's the thang... the Norwegian Film Instytoot had tried, usin' all sorts of old prints of Dreyer's "Joan" an' writin's, etc. to FAITHFULLY restore a print that could be distributed. That was the first version I'd seen--an' it's powerful fer sure BUT when the original "cut" was found it turned out that the Norwegian Film Instytoot's "faithful" restoration was WRONG in lotsa places... (whoops) they "tried"... So now mebbe it makes sense WHY (too) I think that "faithfully restorin' Welles" usin' seamless AI with all good intent... is not the best idear as nobuddy kin guess EVEN what really ended up in that director's cut--even goin' with all that's in the script! Again, with Joan they had actual footage AND script notes...an' they still got it wrong...
Likely as it sounds like yer a film fan too!, ya know that stuff changes "on set"--some'a the best moments of inspiration are not "in the script" an' sumtimes in the cuttin' room the "order" of shots in the shootin' script also changes--plans are swell an' inspiration sometimes makes the unplanned just as swell!
So that's also why I say givin' it a good ol' college try with an animated version (I like the style chosen, it ain't cheesy at least!) works reasonably Well(es) as it makes it clear that it's a "guesswork" an' not a seamless "faithful" restoration.... Thx fer yer com-mint Bobby, I wouldn't'a known 'bout that animator ;-)
Daisy, I found it. It's from The Free Library of Philadelphia channel. It's called, "Orson Welles: The Genius Who Couldn't Do Anything Right." Those several minutes of animation are spooky.
Bobby, thats how it always goes.. "this thing is horrible, *but*.. if they did *this* with it, thatd be ok". After that its just moving that line until everything is on the "right"(wrong) side of it.
Ill admit im guilty of it too. Js, that is how it goes down.
Stalking wolf used to say he never met an ugly witch
Treekllr, I think people can be intelligent enough to use things with care and discretion. I agree that AI is a terrible threat, but the same could be said of a box of matches. The vast majority of people don't become arsonists.
I do think that Congress needs to pass new laws governing what AI can be used for, and that should be very little. Or we could just destroy The Machine.
There are a lot of days when I wish film and sound recording had never been invented. Consider how much more literate and how much more musical the entire world would be.
If you don't know Paul Kingsnorth's work you might want to. He writes a Substack, The Abbey of Misrule, and has a new book coming in a few days. You can get acquainted with him by watching his YouTube channel.
1.sadly, I don't trust Big Gubbamint ta pass laws "governin' AI" to reign it in--their "laws" have allowed our food supply ta be poisoned (& our lands wrecked) an' fer genetically engineered 'skeeters ta be released on the pop-u-last to eliminate... the skeeter bein' a key pollinator no less!... an' other such. Our telecommunications are all hacked/wartched an' 5G cell towers allowed by the FCC, so I'm not sure about Big Gubbamint reignin' in "the enemy" that's AI...
2. but it ain't like a match--people KNOW what it is to be burned, the pain the destruction, the disfiguration, the loss so they DO (mostly) use matches wisely... fire goes back a long way too (haha) but AI, see, they do NOT see the danger. They do NOT "handle with care" nor "care & discretion." They're already goin' hogwild fer AI an' they don't see the damage--no visible blisters, they cannot see that their own words kin be deep faked! In skools (jus' wrote 'bout this re mah younger daughter at college--she changed majors to avoid the AI demon! https://thcsofdaisymoses.substack.com/p/tragedy-ai-has-infected-the-hollowed ) AI is near-ubiquitous. Kids doin' their homework via AI--an' larnin' zip as a result! Matches are life-essentials & will near-always be treated with the mindfulness they deserve--AI ain't essential an' in fact it's life-destroyin' (don't see no upside) an' will near-always be treated as...benign. There's the rub! (I wish we human beans were as careful & mindful as we'd hope us all ta be lol)
"I think people can be intelligent enough to use things with care and discretion."
Really? Where have you been for the past 20 years? Wheres the discretion in peoples phone/internet usage? *A* person, sure. But us as a whole? No. Box of matches? More like heroin. And we give it to everybody, even the kids. Caring seems like an antiquated notion, and discretion goes out the window when nobodies watching.
But really im not wanting to rehash the ai debate. I was just pointing out that thats how they get us, even when we *dont* like what theyre peddling. Theres always a "but for this" that worms its way into our resolve, and in the end, we lose.
It really doesnt matter what we think of ai. Its here. The guardrails are practically nonexistent. It *will* infest all our lives. Thats it, thats the end of the debate. We're relegated to commentary, we are no longer a force to be reckoned with. Bc theyve already sapped our will. Now its just we get what they give us, bc everybody *NEEDS* their shit. We are their junkies, they own us. If theres intelligence, care, and discretion in there, i dont see it.
Hey, treekller, I want to restrict AI like a fourteen year old boy who is forced to wear a pair of underpants meant for a ten year old. He's going to be bugeyed with constrictedness all day.
I'm all in favor of whatever it might take in the form of international law, if it could even be done, to rein in AI. But I am not bothered by its use in the arts as long as the public is informed that it has been used.
Oh. We see that differently. I see it like phones, and by the time we know the dangers itll already have wrought its havoc upon us. All this tech is something thats done *to* us, consequences be damned.
But ai is a new corner, bc this time not everybody is eager to have it. Sadly, our choice in the matter is dwindling fast.
And thats why i said, it really doesnt matter what we think of ai. Like it or not, it will be everywhere. To me, its "use in the arts" is small potatoes, just a way to get its toe in the door, and keep us busy while the real ai work is happening. When ai surveillance becomes a thing(and it will), we'll miss the days when we bickered about ai generated whatever. Mark my words.
Take seriously what I said about my lamenting that movies and sound recording were ever invented. Every day, I pick up this phone and the thought of looking at email makes me wish I could faint to be out of the horror, the horror.
We're all going to fill up our free time with something. Twenty years ago, it was books and music for me. It still is but I won't lie to you and say that smartphones haven't encroached considerably on it.
Miles Davis didn’t sell out. His family did. But it doesn’t matter because one can still find transcendence through his art, regardless of who owns and markets its current distribution.
An' shame on that fambly.... I hope ta gorsh they don't make Miles "zing again" in AI.... it'd be beyond cringe! (Havin' seen some celebs re-in-CORN-nated like Frankenstein, includin' the "Beatles"--it's not just tacky--it's...digital skullduggery!) I worry.... may Miles' music live on but may he RIP not in "bytes"
https://thcsofdaisymoses.substack.com/p/the-newest-aye-yai-yai-of-ai
Thought I’d take another look at Habbakuk: 1:3 “Destruction and violence are before me; there is strife and conflict abounds. Therefor the Law is paralyzed and Justice never prevails. The wicked hem in the righteous, so that Justice is perverted.” Habbakuk 2:4 “See, he is puffed up; his desires are not upright..:5:” Indeed, wine betrays him, he is arrogant and never at rest. Because he is as greedy as the Grave…” Greedy is the pivot here. A signature of our art forms and Time.
Very sad to hear Miles' family sold out. I imagine it was more $ than they can resist.
I hope the Cannes audience stands up and loudly protests and AI movie! What#!% That this is even allowed as an entry?
I think the last thriving art form will be tattoos.
Really? I thought that was already getting tired:/ Like everything else, its glutted, and so its become rare for me to see a tattoo that makes me take notice.
Prison tats on the other hand.. what they can do with primitive tattooing tools is impressive