I think some people take the Elvis point too far, like OP mentioned, but some people have a problem with appropriation when Elvis makes far more money and gets a superstar status, while the R&B and blues artists he borrowed from could hardly break through to white audiences (because of the racism at the time). Even though there were artists like Little Richard and Chuck Berry, they weren't at Elvis's level. Pat Boone was the one who ripped off Little Richard and Fats Domino and made them palatable to white audiences.
Ya - I got over that "your a white Boy playing Blues" thing, many many MANY decades ago.
I was doing a gig in our regular home town bar (kind of a rockin' C&W place, playing "Bad Moon Rising" & dancing by, some guy says to me: "I don't want hear any of that Black Jazz Shit" . All I could think of to say was : "Well Thank you very much!"
I felt his insults were compliments due to the way he interpreted my playing. I wasn't trying to play a particular way - it's just what I did.
I wouldnтАЩt go so far as to say itтАЩs all crap and I am older than dirt. I'm listening to The Animals right now and I have to say that they are still amazing. I was listening to Heaven 17 and it was okay except one song sounded like the one before. Kinda like Taylor Swift. But each generation builds on the one before so I expect theyтАЩll go full circle eventually.
I feel that way when cis actors are criticized for portraying gay characters. It's called "acting". However, race is different for me. I'm not a supporter of minstrelsy. But I believe portraying characters who we assume to be of a certain race with actors of a different race (eg Little Mermaid, Hamilton) is not just acceptable, it can be refreshing.
well, I'm on my (# deleted on the grounds that it may incriminate me) viewing of Red, White and Royal Blue and I'm sooooo glad they cast it the way they did. <3
And yes, if artists and creators aren't allowed to imagine and write about and inhabit characters different from ourselves, art becomes very poor indeed
I think that bigotry and prejudice exist but thereтАЩs only one race. People created racism because they think how somebody looks or their geographical background determines their character. (Go back in history and youтАЩll see people writing about the Irish Race or the Italian Race. Ludicrous ideas to us now but deeply held beliefs to some people once. ) Unfortunately most people like to feel theyтАЩre better than other people. There are racists but they are people who believe in a lie.
Agree 100 percent. I always say that (a) as a lifelong jazz geek it would be hilariously hypocritical for me to be against cultural appropriation, and (b) the history of jazz thoroughly illustrates that appropriation can run in all directions.
Yes, thank you! I have always maintained that Haydn was the greater composer. He innovated every form that was used by composers who came after him for the next 200 years and even today. Mozart was a wunderkind, for sure, but much of his output was repetitive and sub par. You only have to look at the 4 horn concertos: 1 idea, 4 concertos written in 3 days, and it shows.
Well, true for Haydn, but Mozart was friends with and drew a great deal from Johann Christian Bach, who had a more galante, Italianate sound. Beethoven was influenced more by C.P.E. Bach though. Or at least that is what an early music grad student I worked with at IU told me, and judging by the sounds of them all I agree. (And while I prefer JC Bach to CPE Bach, I prefer Haydn to Mozart, so go figure.)
Well, to be fair, the horn concertos were all written for Mozart's skittles-playing-cum-drinking-buddy Ignaz Leutgeb, and the scores are full of rude remarks and jokes. Not your serious Mozart of the last 3 symphonies and "Don Giovanni".
Well put and a large part of what was referred to a s repetitive and sub par in a prior post were written while he was just a Kind, wonder or not. His later works are dome of the greatest pieces in the Classical repertory.
I think appropriation is a good thing, creatively. It's literally how music/arts/culture evolves and is spread.
I think some people take the Elvis point too far, like OP mentioned, but some people have a problem with appropriation when Elvis makes far more money and gets a superstar status, while the R&B and blues artists he borrowed from could hardly break through to white audiences (because of the racism at the time). Even though there were artists like Little Richard and Chuck Berry, they weren't at Elvis's level. Pat Boone was the one who ripped off Little Richard and Fats Domino and made them palatable to white audiences.
Ya - I got over that "your a white Boy playing Blues" thing, many many MANY decades ago.
I was doing a gig in our regular home town bar (kind of a rockin' C&W place, playing "Bad Moon Rising" & dancing by, some guy says to me: "I don't want hear any of that Black Jazz Shit" . All I could think of to say was : "Well Thank you very much!"
I felt his insults were compliments due to the way he interpreted my playing. I wasn't trying to play a particular way - it's just what I did.
JENNIFER MOORE
21 hrs ago
"Modern pop music is crap. It's been that way since the 1990s. They're ARE a few artists who stand out, but they are few and far between."
I wouldnтАЩt go so far as to say itтАЩs all crap and I am older than dirt. I'm listening to The Animals right now and I have to say that they are still amazing. I was listening to Heaven 17 and it was okay except one song sounded like the one before. Kinda like Taylor Swift. But each generation builds on the one before so I expect theyтАЩll go full circle eventually.
I am trying but I can't recall anyone so HUGE as Swift & also so absolutely mediocre in the vocal talent. Very lackluster.
PS - agree with you - it's not all crap
I feel that way when cis actors are criticized for portraying gay characters. It's called "acting". However, race is different for me. I'm not a supporter of minstrelsy. But I believe portraying characters who we assume to be of a certain race with actors of a different race (eg Little Mermaid, Hamilton) is not just acceptable, it can be refreshing.
As opposed to Rock Hudson as a straight horn-dog.
well, I'm on my (# deleted on the grounds that it may incriminate me) viewing of Red, White and Royal Blue and I'm sooooo glad they cast it the way they did. <3
And yes, if artists and creators aren't allowed to imagine and write about and inhabit characters different from ourselves, art becomes very poor indeed
I think that bigotry and prejudice exist but thereтАЩs only one race. People created racism because they think how somebody looks or their geographical background determines their character. (Go back in history and youтАЩll see people writing about the Irish Race or the Italian Race. Ludicrous ideas to us now but deeply held beliefs to some people once. ) Unfortunately most people like to feel theyтАЩre better than other people. There are racists but they are people who believe in a lie.
Agree 100 percent. I always say that (a) as a lifelong jazz geek it would be hilariously hypocritical for me to be against cultural appropriation, and (b) the history of jazz thoroughly illustrates that appropriation can run in all directions.
Yes! Isn't it shameful how Mozart appropriated Haydn!
Yes, thank you! I have always maintained that Haydn was the greater composer. He innovated every form that was used by composers who came after him for the next 200 years and even today. Mozart was a wunderkind, for sure, but much of his output was repetitive and sub par. You only have to look at the 4 horn concertos: 1 idea, 4 concertos written in 3 days, and it shows.
Haydn admitted that the style originated with C. P. E. Bach,and they both owed everything to him.
Well, true for Haydn, but Mozart was friends with and drew a great deal from Johann Christian Bach, who had a more galante, Italianate sound. Beethoven was influenced more by C.P.E. Bach though. Or at least that is what an early music grad student I worked with at IU told me, and judging by the sounds of them all I agree. (And while I prefer JC Bach to CPE Bach, I prefer Haydn to Mozart, so go figure.)
Well, to be fair, the horn concertos were all written for Mozart's skittles-playing-cum-drinking-buddy Ignaz Leutgeb, and the scores are full of rude remarks and jokes. Not your serious Mozart of the last 3 symphonies and "Don Giovanni".
Well put and a large part of what was referred to a s repetitive and sub par in a prior post were written while he was just a Kind, wonder or not. His later works are dome of the greatest pieces in the Classical repertory.
It is why we are not only at a cultural stand still, but are actually hurtling backwards.
Every time I pick up an instrument I can be accused of "appropriation." I'm just playing music I love, like Elvis (though I make considerably less).
IтАЩm getting that in some areas. ItтАЩs a tender area.