I’ve been drumming for almost 50 years (playing a gig this coming Friday!) & would just like to add that breaking down/setting up & then lugging your kit in & out of venues/back & forth to your car might play a role too.
I immigrated in the USA in 2001 and ended up in LA. It was a difficult time and a phase for me. Reading about Scott Timber in your last article and about his relationship with LA it made me cry. I felt for him..
Back in those years I was lonely, lost and exhausted. But one day I discovered the world of salsa dancing which is a huge and a very unique sub culture, particularly in Los Angeles. It pulled me in and I got lost in that world of futile ambitions of many dancers who try to make it in LA, but also in musicality and in rhythm and the down to earth spirit of the working class people, who frequent salsa clubs. All of it was very far from my own academically geared upbringing. But above all, it was the world of salsa music that rests on an ancient drumming technique of African clave. And all salseros agree that we exist under the magic spell of clave percussion.
Many years later I realised that the world of salsa clubs with its calming spell of clave percussion was exactly what saved me from severe depression, kept me going and eventually helped me find my vocation, which is neither music nor dancing.
When recently my own teen child was going through a dark phase I intuitively looked for drumming lessons for her. Unfortunately I didn’t follow through and didn't sign her up for any, cause I got swamped with her numerous therapies. I really wish I read this article back then, it would have added more confidence to my intuition. Well, I m glad I have read it now. A heart-felt thank you.
On the other hand, you have rock and roll drummers like Keith Moon from the Who who died VERY young from stuff that had little to do with their drumming...
Not only Moon (32), but John Bonham (32), Gene Krupa (64), Buddy Rich (69), Dallas Taylor (66), Buddy Miles (60), Neil Peart (67), Tony Williams (51), Max Roach (83), Charlie Watts (80), and on and on. The evidence that drummers — in whatever genre — live longer, or shorter, lives than other folks needs more real evidence.
I'll take a slightly different tact on this theme. Over the years, I've followed the obituaries at Ultimate Classic Rock which compiles virtually every rock death in a comprehensive manner. Each year, there are sadly more than a hundred obituaries.
What I've observed over many years is that musicians have a dramatically lower reported rate of dementia at death. In fact, it's incredibly rare to read a rock or music obituary where dementia is referenced as a condition suffered by the decedent or the cause of death. This has remained true despite the average age at death increasing every year.
Clearly, the dementia rate among this cohort is much, much lower than the population. This despite often challenging lifestyles from a standard dementia risk perspective.
What does this say about music and the brain? Does playing music (and remembering lyrics etc.) in some way work the brain and its pathways more or perhaps in new ways as we age? Is music therapeutic to brain illnesses generally - with more being more protective? Is the fact that older adults tend to listen and experience less music as they age a risk factor? Does playing an instrument insulate you more from progressive brain illness?
If I were a dementia researcher, I would be examining the rate of dementia among various cohorts of musicians (e.g. singers, those that play instruments, those that listen into old age etc.) and working to figure out the "why" for this apparent phenomena.
The artistic and mathematical qualities of music and their impacts on the brain might hold the key to why some brains age faster than others.
It is so much more. John Ratey of Harvard wrote a book called Spark, the New Science of Exercise and the Brain. His lectures are online too. Playing a musical instrument activates and sparks the brain like no other physical activity. And especially the use of both hands in playing. Much like Rock Steady Boxing is a proven known therapy for neuromuscular diseases like Parkinson’s.
Ted, I’m not a drummer (unless middle school band counts) but I’ve long been fascinated by the therapeutic effects of vibration. I didn’t realize until recently how much this fascination has been a thread that’s woven through my life since I was a kid. I stumbled into my first startup in 2003 when I was 28 and a first time founder, called Crowson Technology. We developed the worlds most accurate low frequency transducer and found immediate success in both the high-end home and commercial cinema industries as welll as lab testing equipment (shaker tables) but 21 years later, I’m working on a prone therapy system that incorporates low frequency vibration systems alongside spatial surround mixes of music from various instruments selected for their harmonics. It may or may not involved psychedelics (depending on local laws, of course)…
I’ve never heard of Cymatics but will definitely have a look.
According to many ancient traditions, vibration is at the source of the universe. Cymatics definitely taps into this, so I hope you find synchronicity!
Well, Ringo sure looks like he has a portrait in his attic. And when I was last in Liverpool, I had the privilege of spending a day with Colin Hanton (the original Beatles drummer) and when we talked on the phone to set up the time to meet he said the following to me: "I can meet on Tuesday but not Monday because that's the day I visit my elderly mother in the care home." Colin Hanton is 84. (and still drumming with the Quarrymen)
Possibily. It’s also possible he was referring to his wife, as northern men occasionally call their wives “mother” (as we know…). But i didn’t get that sense.
Man ! One of absolute best articles on drumming ever ! I’m 71 still lacking maturity, got a pimple last yr. & my wife said “ finally puberty”
Anyway when I was about 13 I got my hands on a Ludwig Drum Catalogue , there was Roy Haynes sitting on this kit , he looked so stylish in how he dressed & looked so damn classy ( sorry almost every drummer on YouTube look like bums ) these men were so fine it was expected back then to look good behind a kit & respectful & professional! That’s Roy !!! I wanted to look like that ! ( even if I was a white honky)
Well it’s origin appears to apply to non-English speaking stupid white males coming from Europe in early 1900’s that tried to take jobs from the Black men who at the time were in factory unions ( thus the terrible term “ scab labour “ please don’t rise & be offended or rewrite history it’s just another ugly piece of our past, so the answer is only whites are “ honky’s” or honkies & Chicago Cops called dumb whites fresh off the boats “ bohunks” according to Quora
Well no , as the slang was directly white non English speaking European’s ( again no offence intended, we at times should laugh at ourselves even if the roots were rotten
Now this is getting interesting, correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t the Levitical lineage need their sins (rot) atoned for every yr. just like everyone else ?
The same reason conductors have long lives and composers do not! Remember the reason Aaron Copland gave for quitting composing because composers all die young and condutors live long lives. He lived to 90! Maybe I should switch to drums or conducting instead of circular breathing on my trombone and digeridoo! By the way I asked him this in person meeting him after he conducted the National Symphony!
Gene Krupa died at 64. Buddy Rich died at 69. Keith Moon died at 32. So, for n=3, the answer is, no, drummers don’t live longer. I suspect if you surveyed all drummers with a wiki entry you’d find their lifespans vary as much as any other set of people.
When I stopped playing drums for a few years my endurance, focus, memory and ambition were all in decline. I jumped back into drums and things started getting better immediately. There is plenty of documentation on the wonderful effects of drumming 30-60 minutes twice a week or more.
This is a wonderful read! Now I wish I had been given sticks rather than a trumpet! I would say that being a trumpet player blows, but that would be untrue and disrespectful to the instrument. In fact, I think having blown the horn in both classical and jazz ensembles ( not to mention rock) is a blessing. My only regret is that I have been inactive at trumpet for yearsI have needed too much time and energy as a Father ( now grandfather) and as a NASA Astrophysicist. Still, I loved this take on life.
I sometimes have vivid dreams at night, but have virtually no visual imagination by day. Just about the only thing that makes me see proper images when I'm awake is being around hypnotic drumming patterns as a player or listener.
I’ve been drumming for almost 50 years (playing a gig this coming Friday!) & would just like to add that breaking down/setting up & then lugging your kit in & out of venues/back & forth to your car might play a role too.
I hope so anyway.
I do assume the mobility work in drumming helps a bit.
It looks like drumming saved my life.
I immigrated in the USA in 2001 and ended up in LA. It was a difficult time and a phase for me. Reading about Scott Timber in your last article and about his relationship with LA it made me cry. I felt for him..
Back in those years I was lonely, lost and exhausted. But one day I discovered the world of salsa dancing which is a huge and a very unique sub culture, particularly in Los Angeles. It pulled me in and I got lost in that world of futile ambitions of many dancers who try to make it in LA, but also in musicality and in rhythm and the down to earth spirit of the working class people, who frequent salsa clubs. All of it was very far from my own academically geared upbringing. But above all, it was the world of salsa music that rests on an ancient drumming technique of African clave. And all salseros agree that we exist under the magic spell of clave percussion.
Many years later I realised that the world of salsa clubs with its calming spell of clave percussion was exactly what saved me from severe depression, kept me going and eventually helped me find my vocation, which is neither music nor dancing.
When recently my own teen child was going through a dark phase I intuitively looked for drumming lessons for her. Unfortunately I didn’t follow through and didn't sign her up for any, cause I got swamped with her numerous therapies. I really wish I read this article back then, it would have added more confidence to my intuition. Well, I m glad I have read it now. A heart-felt thank you.
On the other hand, you have rock and roll drummers like Keith Moon from the Who who died VERY young from stuff that had little to do with their drumming...
And let’s not forget John "Stumpy" Pepys, Eric "Stumpy Joe" Childs, Mick Shrimpton, and every other Spinal Tap drummer that died prematurely.
Those guys had a lot of bad luck with their time-keepers.
Not only Moon (32), but John Bonham (32), Gene Krupa (64), Buddy Rich (69), Dallas Taylor (66), Buddy Miles (60), Neil Peart (67), Tony Williams (51), Max Roach (83), Charlie Watts (80), and on and on. The evidence that drummers — in whatever genre — live longer, or shorter, lives than other folks needs more real evidence.
Dave Tough and Big Sid Catlett were both 41 when they died
80 and 83 are pretty good going
Billy Higgins was only 64 when he died.
Similarly I was thinking about the ‘circular breathers’ who died young, like Roland Kirk. I think there were some other factors involved.
He had strokes, not related to circular breathing. Idress Sulieman was a circular breather and lived 78 and Clark Terry was 94 when he died.
I'll take a slightly different tact on this theme. Over the years, I've followed the obituaries at Ultimate Classic Rock which compiles virtually every rock death in a comprehensive manner. Each year, there are sadly more than a hundred obituaries.
What I've observed over many years is that musicians have a dramatically lower reported rate of dementia at death. In fact, it's incredibly rare to read a rock or music obituary where dementia is referenced as a condition suffered by the decedent or the cause of death. This has remained true despite the average age at death increasing every year.
Clearly, the dementia rate among this cohort is much, much lower than the population. This despite often challenging lifestyles from a standard dementia risk perspective.
What does this say about music and the brain? Does playing music (and remembering lyrics etc.) in some way work the brain and its pathways more or perhaps in new ways as we age? Is music therapeutic to brain illnesses generally - with more being more protective? Is the fact that older adults tend to listen and experience less music as they age a risk factor? Does playing an instrument insulate you more from progressive brain illness?
If I were a dementia researcher, I would be examining the rate of dementia among various cohorts of musicians (e.g. singers, those that play instruments, those that listen into old age etc.) and working to figure out the "why" for this apparent phenomena.
The artistic and mathematical qualities of music and their impacts on the brain might hold the key to why some brains age faster than others.
They've done studies in which exposing dementia sufferers to music seems to restore some of their memory and or cognitive function.
It is so much more. John Ratey of Harvard wrote a book called Spark, the New Science of Exercise and the Brain. His lectures are online too. Playing a musical instrument activates and sparks the brain like no other physical activity. And especially the use of both hands in playing. Much like Rock Steady Boxing is a proven known therapy for neuromuscular diseases like Parkinson’s.
Ted, I’m not a drummer (unless middle school band counts) but I’ve long been fascinated by the therapeutic effects of vibration. I didn’t realize until recently how much this fascination has been a thread that’s woven through my life since I was a kid. I stumbled into my first startup in 2003 when I was 28 and a first time founder, called Crowson Technology. We developed the worlds most accurate low frequency transducer and found immediate success in both the high-end home and commercial cinema industries as welll as lab testing equipment (shaker tables) but 21 years later, I’m working on a prone therapy system that incorporates low frequency vibration systems alongside spatial surround mixes of music from various instruments selected for their harmonics. It may or may not involved psychedelics (depending on local laws, of course)…
I’ve never heard of Cymatics but will definitely have a look.
According to many ancient traditions, vibration is at the source of the universe. Cymatics definitely taps into this, so I hope you find synchronicity!
Well, Ringo sure looks like he has a portrait in his attic. And when I was last in Liverpool, I had the privilege of spending a day with Colin Hanton (the original Beatles drummer) and when we talked on the phone to set up the time to meet he said the following to me: "I can meet on Tuesday but not Monday because that's the day I visit my elderly mother in the care home." Colin Hanton is 84. (and still drumming with the Quarrymen)
Interesting! According to Wikipedia his mother died in 1950. I wonder if he was referring to a stepmother or mother in law?
Possibily. It’s also possible he was referring to his wife, as northern men occasionally call their wives “mother” (as we know…). But i didn’t get that sense.
Man ! One of absolute best articles on drumming ever ! I’m 71 still lacking maturity, got a pimple last yr. & my wife said “ finally puberty”
Anyway when I was about 13 I got my hands on a Ludwig Drum Catalogue , there was Roy Haynes sitting on this kit , he looked so stylish in how he dressed & looked so damn classy ( sorry almost every drummer on YouTube look like bums ) these men were so fine it was expected back then to look good behind a kit & respectful & professional! That’s Roy !!! I wanted to look like that ! ( even if I was a white honky)
Are there honkys of any other color?
Well it’s origin appears to apply to non-English speaking stupid white males coming from Europe in early 1900’s that tried to take jobs from the Black men who at the time were in factory unions ( thus the terrible term “ scab labour “ please don’t rise & be offended or rewrite history it’s just another ugly piece of our past, so the answer is only whites are “ honky’s” or honkies & Chicago Cops called dumb whites fresh off the boats “ bohunks” according to Quora
In other words; no, which makes the term "white" honky redundant.
Well no , as the slang was directly white non English speaking European’s ( again no offence intended, we at times should laugh at ourselves even if the roots were rotten
" capiche" ?
My roots go back to the Levites and I don't know if they were rotten.
Now this is getting interesting, correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t the Levitical lineage need their sins (rot) atoned for every yr. just like everyone else ?
The same reason conductors have long lives and composers do not! Remember the reason Aaron Copland gave for quitting composing because composers all die young and condutors live long lives. He lived to 90! Maybe I should switch to drums or conducting instead of circular breathing on my trombone and digeridoo! By the way I asked him this in person meeting him after he conducted the National Symphony!
Gene Krupa died at 64. Buddy Rich died at 69. Keith Moon died at 32. So, for n=3, the answer is, no, drummers don’t live longer. I suspect if you surveyed all drummers with a wiki entry you’d find their lifespans vary as much as any other set of people.
Dancers, too!
yeah!
At first glance, John Bonham is an exception to this rule, until you consider that he very well might have have died by 25 if not for drumming.
But if recklessness is a drummer-gene, the theory gets more complicated ...
Sonny Payne’s father, the drummer Chris Colombo, played up to his 100th birthday at a club on the Atlantic City boardwalk,
In Cincinnati, King Records’ legendary studio drummer, Philip Paul, was an active player in town until his death at age 96 in 2022.
Who will live longer ? Paul or Ringo? You might put your money on the oldest member of the Beatles.
When I stopped playing drums for a few years my endurance, focus, memory and ambition were all in decline. I jumped back into drums and things started getting better immediately. There is plenty of documentation on the wonderful effects of drumming 30-60 minutes twice a week or more.
Ted,
This is a wonderful read! Now I wish I had been given sticks rather than a trumpet! I would say that being a trumpet player blows, but that would be untrue and disrespectful to the instrument. In fact, I think having blown the horn in both classical and jazz ensembles ( not to mention rock) is a blessing. My only regret is that I have been inactive at trumpet for yearsI have needed too much time and energy as a Father ( now grandfather) and as a NASA Astrophysicist. Still, I loved this take on life.
Best wishes,
John
I sometimes have vivid dreams at night, but have virtually no visual imagination by day. Just about the only thing that makes me see proper images when I'm awake is being around hypnotic drumming patterns as a player or listener.