I think new kids listening to old music is more than nostalgia. I know from my own sons that they prefer the old rock music -- not because it's old, but because it's rock. What and when was the last rock song to chart?
What I don't understand -- and maybe someone can help me -- is that if rock music is so popular these days, why aren't the record companies going out and looking for more rock acts?
Agree with this. I have a houseful of young adults and they listen to some newish stuff but mostly "old" stuff, not due to nostalgia for their own youth, as they were all born in this century, but because it's better and they like it.
Their ages and their favorite acts/genres:
22 female: Iron Maiden (has seen them live half a dozen times), Sabaton, Ghost, Gojira, Testament, Overkill, Megadeth
20 female: Russian classical composers, Bob Dylan, the Beatles, 90s Tejano like Selena, ska like the Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Joy Division, Pet Shop Boys
18 female: Arcadian Fire, sixties girl groups, Ghibli soundtracks, Conan Gray, 80s and 90s country like George Strait/Martina McBride/Trisha Yearwood/Alan Jackson, New Order, Depeche Mode
14 male: Supertramp, Kansas, Iron Maiden like his big sis, Metallica
Very similar to my three boys. My middle son is in his own band -- not sure of what genre you'd call it, but maybe "post-punk metal"? A mix of a lot of things in any case!
Well, "It all speaks to the changing face of nostalgia."
Maybe not. Maybe the entirety of recent pop music (that is, the music that gets measured as nauseum) is built upon the previous century's fleshing out of (almost) all mathematical combinations of notes to the point that it is literally impossible to produce music that has not 'been done' sometime before...and the originals were/are more compelling/interesting/evocative than the knockoffs?
Dunno, but as has been pointed out before, many noted musicians of the last century proclaimed that all the tunes had already been composed...so why listen weaker versions of same?
Most pop music today is written by a committee of a dozen producers and "sung" by auto-tuned starlets to a computerized beat. They don't even have to be able to sing live because they just used canned vocals.
On the occasions when I'm forced to listen to such music I always think "I can hear the mouse clicking as the producer drags and drops to 'create' this song"
> all mathematical combinations of notes to the point that it is literally impossible to produce music that has not 'been done' sometime before
> all the tunes had already been composed
Disagree. The number of possible 10 note melodies that can be produced from 12 tones is about 62 billion. That's ignoring rests, and rhythmic variations, which would vastly increase the number of possibilities.
Schoenberg said "There is still plenty of good music to be written in C major." My snarky response is "Thank you Arny for not using up any of it."
I won't disagree with the arithmetic. But where are those outer billions? If, per Ted, thousands (!) of 'new' compositions are posted to the musical interweb every single day, what portion of those is in other than 4/4, or 1-4-5? That is, how many compositions and performances thereof are aimed at a listener who has effectively abandoned all music previously produced in search of something different? And what cohort of the 7 or 8 billion of us does that actually encompass? Is there a market for it? And by market, I'm not asking only about the potential to make some money off it – I'm also talking of the marketplace of ideas...
I'm thinking of a jazz pianist/composer who asserted to me that the primary motive force in the history of jazz (and some other musics too, but he focused on jazz) was/is to continuously push to eliminate dissonance – that is, to steer jarringly dissonant collections of notes into a framework that removes the non-sequitur aspect and presents the listener's ears with a new idea for how to hear. The 20th century hosted quite a few successful iterations of that effort, but I've listened to plenty of those attempts and most of them were dead ends, DOA. Maybe those musicians soldiered on, playing/recording for their own personal edification and satisfaction, but no one else would ever notice or take heed.
The musics that humanity seems prepared/amenable to listen to are beat unto death. The thousands of 'new' tunes posted on www are testament to the enduring stodginess of human ears.
Will humanity evolve to hear and enjoy music that does not yet exist? Music that is truly different?
Should add here that last night I watched the film 'ENNIO' in theater. A retrospective on the life and career of Ennio Morricone. It's very long, but worth it. He was prolific, and boundary-breaking, and irrespective of how highly praised for his innovation, I find his music full of schmaltz.
If you get a moment, watch legendary creator/animator/writer Hayou Miyazaki explain his disdain for AI. In a world of mass-production, souls like this still exist.
"... in a world where everything is driven by money..." Money's good, as far as I'm concerned. The result is that I can earn it and buy stuff I want or need. Please provide what you think would be a good option.
Good question. Do places like Muscle Shoals, Motown, or Memphis even exist?
Greta Van Fleet or Led Zeppelin? Gonna go with LZ. What rock bands highlight amazing drummers like Bonham? Tool. Singers like Maynard James Keenan today? Maybe someone has suggestions. I haven’t heard a voice that great in rock and roll for a long time.
I hope this doesn't come across as harsh or directed specifically at you, but every time I hear this sort of thing I can't help but think that tons of great new music is happening all the time, but that people just do go looking in the right place for it. Or they don't look at all, then complain that there's nothing good being created any more...
To give an example: I live in Cleveland, Ohio, USA. This past weekend we had a "Lottery League" concert event where 172 musicians from all sorts of different bands and solo acts put their names "in a hat" and had our local music community (listers + other bands) vote to jumble them all up and sort them into 43 4-piece, ad hoc bands. Each of these 43 new bands had to a couple of weeks come up with a 10-minute set of original songs, rehearse, and perform those sets live (across 3 stages from 1PM to midnight) to a crowd of hundreds of Cleveland music fans. It was an amazing experience and at least a dozen times that day I thought to myself " I would go see them again. I hope they stick around and keep playing together after the even ends." And these 172 musicians barely scratch the surface of the talent pool here.
Now, I understand that Cleveland, as the birth place of Rock'n'Roll and the home of it's Hall of Fame and Museum, has an unusually deep and talented local music scene, and that not every place in the world has what we have here. I can go to a good and engaging live show every night of the week between talented local acts, and touring national and international acts. In fact, I usually average 2-3 per week. But even if the scene isn't that deep where you live, the real power of the Internet is to make those inaccessible scenes accessible outside their physical geography.
Check out independent artists on Bandcamp, or go out and see the college kids play at the bar across town, or check out an open mic at the local art gallery/coffee house. You will absolutely be surprised what is available and how good so much of it is.
You are right that there are many musicians currently producing good, interesting music. The problem is, they have no mass market outlet for their work. Record companies no longer take chances on new acts. They don't promote new talent that does not already have a big following. Yes, check out local artists. I have been impressed by the talent out there.
My problem with Bandcamp is that finding the good stuff is like searching for a needle in a haystack. As The Honest Broker pointed out, we used to be able to hear original and interesting music on the radio. That is no longer the case as independent radio stations got gobbled up by Clear Channel and one or two other corporations.
“There will be no nostalgia in the future if the present is not properly tended to.” Definitely, even if what is made in the present can't hold a candle to what was made in the past. That's why the past is doing so well now.
CBS getting rid of its evening news is an absurd proposition for those who remember the Cronkite/Rather golden era. If its parent company wasn't behaving in such a shitty way right now, it could properly provide some aid.
I think also there is so much more to "old" stuff than simply nostalgia. I am a strong believer in and practitioner of classical education because so much older, and in some cases ancient, cultural product is genuinely worthwhile! Music, art, literature, ways of thinking, ways of living: currency bias robs us of SO much wisdom that is worth discovering.
I have no nostalgia now, let alone in the future. I don't pine for the past or it's contents. I like living in the present. If I listen to music of the past it's not due to nostalgia, it's because I hadn't heard it before and it's a new discovery. The past is present and the "Future lies ahead." Mort Sahl.
Which is a result of each of the networks now being owned by companies run by crazy and greedy assholes. Don't they know what being a "public service" is? Maybe if there were less ads and better reporting, the viewers would come back.
CBS evening news dying? To me that’s a step in the right direction. Nostalgia for the golden era or not, it does get in the way of growth .The present may not hold a candle to the past , that’s fine. For me it’s better to let the natural light inside sometimes.
Prof. Gioia, I have now gone back over two centuries to escape today’s culture. I want to experience things I may have missed in my teens and 20s/30s because I was consuming popular music. Bach makes my heart hurt. It feels so pure. The more I read about music history, the more my heart aches. Beautiful. I’m fascinated by Schumann’s melodies, Mozart’s energy and God-given tenacity, Brahms, Ravel, Beach—so many pieces I’m experiencing in a new light (or for the first time). I am falling back in love with the magic of music. I think culture needs to find its way back. Back to music in its purest form! Live instruments played by living breathing human beings that feel and think their way through a song. Someone’s personal comedy or tragedy inspired the genesis of an idea that eventually changed forms from energetic thoughts into pitches on a staff. It’s truly miraculous. Hearing a human voice. Hearing a saxophone on a street corner. SOUL.
100% perfectly put, and I am in the same place. Even something as simple - that I took for granted and largely ignored my first three or so decades on earth - as live music in the corner of a seafood restaurant on the beach. I find it entrancing now. These people are taking the time to learn and practice and make music, by choice, and for the joy of it! It feels like a tiny miracle every time someone chooses to actively create instead of passively consume. I listen intentionally, sometimes for the first time, to the backing vocals and the musicians in studio recordings and I think about the people who did session work and how they chose to get up every day and make music with their time. What a precious thing! How not to be taken for granted!
Your comment makes my heart happy. Same!! The intrinsic value of music is so incredibly healing and meaningful. Perhaps, once the pendulum swings back, we can collectively experience music again. An example that just popped in my head?
When Stravinsky first introduced “Rite of Spring” people were so moved, they rioted in the streets of Paris. Music should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable. Who’s gonna shock the system with their REAL soulful art?!! Not AI. Not Spotify Safe Playlists. People’s minds deserve to be blown away…Prof. Gioia is right though—a reflection of the times.
We are the media now. Movies, music, MSM are nauseating copypasta regurgitations that AI could generate. Substack is the home of original creative culture.
I feel bad for people who are clinging to these failing institutions...
The fact that the corporate legacy media continues to fail so spectacularly in one of the most contentious election years in US history is really telling of how much people have given up on it. In theory, their business should be booming this year.
I mean that this is an election year and in the past that has meant huge demand and readership for the legacy news media. Business should be good for them and they should not be laying people off. But they are still laying staff off and face declining subscriber numbers even in what should be a busy year.
I agree. However, the state of the nation because of said politics is particularly precarious, which might (well, does) explain that, specifically within the "legacy news media," but unfortunately also within the lives of the populace at large. That's why Substack is so successful. And why Ted, in particular, is doing so well. He exudes common sense, reinforced by a strong family and a widely varied career.
Yuri, I went to the movie theater with my husband last year to see a sci-fi flick called “The Creator”. We both “pshhhh”-ed our way out of there after 15-20 minutes. I’ve never left a movie I paid for. It was pretty bad, IMHO. I think old films streamed at home is the way I’ll consume movies from now on.
I’m no fan of the SEO-optimized, algorithmic turn of the internet and want to see its demise as quickly as possible. But that ends at a nostalgia for a prelapsarian era of media that has never existed, certainly not in the US context. For those nostalgic for the golden era of CBS I recommend David Halberstam’s The Powers That Be – his gumshoe history of the rise of the big media titans and the crisis that the Vietnam War represented. It’s important to remember during every major America crisis, esp. in relation to foreign policy, the media establishment confronted the dilemma of whether to repeat the DC-line or to actually report what was happening. The actual track record is ambiguous. The recent memoir of the disgraced Marty Peretz of The New Repulbic should also cause ppl to pause and wonder what outlets are trustworthy and which are engaged in a political project.
For example, I personally wonder if TikTok has become a really important outlet for progressive/left messages that undermine the official DC-line around a certain crisis, maybe a ban on it isn’t just about mental health. And maybe a best-selling author with nice elite credentials testifying on social media before congress gives politicians just the opportunity to foment moral panic to silence it. How can I check: I’ll just google his name and the Iraqi War. Oooh, he supported that too.
"That’s because music fans (like everybody else) are increasingly turning to alternative media”. I would also say that they are engaging more with Rick Beato than they are actually engaging with real music. I have seen this happen in my own life - it is easier for me to click on a Rick Beato video than it is to sit down and listen to a side of vinyl. One of my pressing personal/spiritual projects now is to retrain my attention to realign with my own values. This erosion of my attention, my capacity for full consciousness, has definitely occurred over the last ten years - a causality of over exposure to digital media.
Same. It's tremendously sobering to confront how difficult it is to actually do - I mean, I could be reading, an actual book that I'd like to finish, right now, but here I am on Substack, yet again - but that underlines now necessary it is. My husband and I set as our focus concepts for the rest of this year and the next: wisely steward our attention/resist distraction/uncouple from screens/unmachine our life. We want to reclaim our eroded ability to focus enough to grasp and enjoy subtlety and to tune out the noise.
I will always call it "Raiders of the Lost Ark," not "Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark." Especially since "Indiana Jones and..." movies are all inferior.
I’m always curious to see that old music consumption stat with granularity than released more or less than 18 months ago. I have a hunch that most of “old” music people are listening to is from the last few years
LOL The early nineties as new music to me. My music starts about a couple of hundred years ago and ends in nineteen eighty-nine. Well, except for Boz. I think his music, except for Silk Degrees, has been at its best since ninety-four's Some Change.
Ironically, I am going back a couple centuries and rediscovering music I more than likely ignored in my teens, 20s/30s except for music appreciation courses or choir. I am collecting CDs from my library and listening to them at the office, my car, and at home. So far, I am in love with the melodies Saint-Saens, Schumann, and Wolf. Bach, Brahms, & Beethoven. Stravinsky’s Firebird and Rite of Spring are my favorite pieces this week. Last week, it was Chopin’s ‘Raindrop’ prelude and Pastoral by Beethoven. The latter had me wanting to skip then stomp then cry then explore the woods by myself :)
Speaking of Chopin’s Raindrop prelude—who else feels this song is metal?! What an emo master at dark emotions. I’m trying to savor each goosebump moment, journal why, and continue my adventures in old music that is new to me!!! Boz is new to me—will have to check it out 🎶🎶suggestions always welcome.
There are the big guys: Mozart, Bach, Beethoven (I particularly like Beethoven), but I lean towards less celebrated, but nevertheless well-known, Schumann, Schubert, Debussy, and Vivaldi. Kinda funny, but I found out about Debussy when I listened to Styx's Crystal Ball album, where "Claire de Lune" is the intro to their composition, "Ballerina." The AOR groups are often mocked by "intelligent music aficionados," but there's actually a lot of good musicianship and writing to be found with them.
Hah, you are just a young'un. Boz is Boz Scaggs. Been a favorite of mine since since his most successful album "Silk Degrees" in nineteen seventy-six. Got to see him at the 1992 New Orleans Jazz Festival. Distinctive voice, which my wife and I love. He shared the stage with Carole King and Aaron Neville. Bunch of old farts, even older than I, but, boy, there's amazing music among them. As someone commented here: What's old is new. Hope you enjoy listening to Boz.
I’m still learning a lot about music, so I really appreciate your comment!! Of course I’ve heard of Boz Scaggs, but I haven’t actively listened. I’ll change that very soon. I also like Vivaldi! Quite a different “Spring” than Stravinsky, eh? :)
Glad you've heard of Boz, my heart feels better. Since I don't drive to work any more, I primarily listen to Ted's nemesis, Spotify. Only albums, no playlists. I get to hear most of my vinyl and CDs without having to select and put them on a turntable or in a player. The bottom line is that I'm lazy, and Spotify lets me listen to some of my favorite artists' recordings that are either unavailable or too expensive for my pocketbook. Regardless, Spring is good because the cold is gone. And bad because of allergies. Sort of like your comparison!
I have the opposite hunch, actually. This graph seems to suggest that the youngest people enjoy two entirely separate periods of music. Like everyone else, they enjoy the music of their childhood— the ’00s; unlike everyone else, they also enjoy the most recent stuff— the ’20s. But what they seem to enjoy far less is the music in between— the ’10s.
Today I played a short set of 3 songs for the opening of an event at a big University well-known for their schools of business, law, and medicine. They have no arts programs.
Afterwards all the officers of the University and the invited dignitaries came up to congratulate me and my guitarist colleague on the performance.
But not a single student did so.
When I play at other, more arts-centered institutions, the students love it and always want to talk to me afterwards.
Reminds me of Ted's article on the decline of the Humanities, and why this is a tragedy for the development of our young people.
It pains me when I hear the alternative explanations offered for heavy smartphone/internet/social media usage and it's speedrun of setting fire to mental health:
"People with anxiety/depression are drawn to social media and the internet, it doesn't cause it or make it worse!"
"The world collapsing is causing declining mental health, not me seeing it online!"
Meanwhile, in my work with substance use clients, you hear the same thing:
"People with anxiety/depression are drawn to drugs and alcohol, it doesn't cause or make it worse!"
"My world collapsing is causing my declining mental health, not me using substances!"
To the point on old music replacing new music, the same is true on streaming services and video games. I believe there was a report last year that all of the top-ten shows on Netflix and streaming were older shows, not what is being produced today. The top-ten most played video games are 5 years old or older. Is our culture today just not producing good enough content?
To the point of the legacy media losing subscribers and money, it is very telling that it is still occurring in what is one of the most contentious election years ever in the US. In theory, the corporate legacy media should be thriving right now, but it is not.
Isn't the old music streaming increase trend expected? The amount of new music under a given threshold (e.g. released in past 12 months) may fluctuate, but the amount of old music is increasing forever, since all new music eventually becomes old.
I had the same thought. The article suggests old music is anything over 18 months old, which probably represents 99% of the music available on streaming services at any given moment. Despite that, roughly 30% of listening is for music newer than 18 months. These facts seem to contradict the proposition that people are abandoning new music.
Loved all of your article! I especially loved (but also was so creeped out) by the disturbing data with Internet Addiction. It may sound weird, but the more I come to Substack, the more I find myself distancing myself from the "Internet" if that makes sense. Like yes, I am still technically on, but it feels different and more real. I also don't feel FOMO if I don't get on this particular platform for a while, and maybe that's because the interactions are so much longer and genuine.
Agreed. Calling it social media doesn't even seem completely accurate. If for no other reason, the goal doesn't seem to be to addict and make angry/rot the brains of users, which is what social media is nowadays.
Without knowing what FOMO means I can still understand your message because you spent some time putting it together. What is different about this substack?
I think about what I am going to type and how I am going to format the output from those thoughts. What I don't do, as far as I am aware, is bang out many short, snap answers. Scrolling down, the length of people's posts here seems to be greater than in a lot of other fast-paced, say it for the dopamine-maybe, outlets.
100 percent. There are no character limits either which allows for well thought out responses. I am sure if someone wanted to, they could make their feed too busy to handle and also with bad faith actors. But if that's the goal, why come here? At least in the space I have created on Substack, there seems to be a desire for the genuine exchange of ideas and supporting one another.
FOMO means fear of missing out by the way, for future reference. :)
Cheers Preston. FOMO - gives me a bit more understanding of why I occasionally go down a youtube rabbithole. I know they are designed to be addictive but I couldn't work out what is addictive about them, to me - what am I missing out on? It could be that acting on me. Knowing that acronym gives me a little armour :)
I for one am very excited for what the micro culture can offer us. I see little loss in the death or weakening of macro-culture creators. Imagine the simple beauty of a child singing a song his family wrote.
I think new kids listening to old music is more than nostalgia. I know from my own sons that they prefer the old rock music -- not because it's old, but because it's rock. What and when was the last rock song to chart?
What I don't understand -- and maybe someone can help me -- is that if rock music is so popular these days, why aren't the record companies going out and looking for more rock acts?
Agree with this. I have a houseful of young adults and they listen to some newish stuff but mostly "old" stuff, not due to nostalgia for their own youth, as they were all born in this century, but because it's better and they like it.
Their ages and their favorite acts/genres:
22 female: Iron Maiden (has seen them live half a dozen times), Sabaton, Ghost, Gojira, Testament, Overkill, Megadeth
20 female: Russian classical composers, Bob Dylan, the Beatles, 90s Tejano like Selena, ska like the Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Joy Division, Pet Shop Boys
18 female: Arcadian Fire, sixties girl groups, Ghibli soundtracks, Conan Gray, 80s and 90s country like George Strait/Martina McBride/Trisha Yearwood/Alan Jackson, New Order, Depeche Mode
14 male: Supertramp, Kansas, Iron Maiden like his big sis, Metallica
Very similar to my three boys. My middle son is in his own band -- not sure of what genre you'd call it, but maybe "post-punk metal"? A mix of a lot of things in any case!
I think the pool of musicians good enough to play good rock has decreased dramatically. More video games, less guitar playing...
Yes - same is happening in literature for sure. I imagine visual arts and probably all arts in general.
Well, "It all speaks to the changing face of nostalgia."
Maybe not. Maybe the entirety of recent pop music (that is, the music that gets measured as nauseum) is built upon the previous century's fleshing out of (almost) all mathematical combinations of notes to the point that it is literally impossible to produce music that has not 'been done' sometime before...and the originals were/are more compelling/interesting/evocative than the knockoffs?
Dunno, but as has been pointed out before, many noted musicians of the last century proclaimed that all the tunes had already been composed...so why listen weaker versions of same?
Most pop music today is written by a committee of a dozen producers and "sung" by auto-tuned starlets to a computerized beat. They don't even have to be able to sing live because they just used canned vocals.
On the occasions when I'm forced to listen to such music I always think "I can hear the mouse clicking as the producer drags and drops to 'create' this song"
lol
> all mathematical combinations of notes to the point that it is literally impossible to produce music that has not 'been done' sometime before
> all the tunes had already been composed
Disagree. The number of possible 10 note melodies that can be produced from 12 tones is about 62 billion. That's ignoring rests, and rhythmic variations, which would vastly increase the number of possibilities.
Schoenberg said "There is still plenty of good music to be written in C major." My snarky response is "Thank you Arny for not using up any of it."
I won't disagree with the arithmetic. But where are those outer billions? If, per Ted, thousands (!) of 'new' compositions are posted to the musical interweb every single day, what portion of those is in other than 4/4, or 1-4-5? That is, how many compositions and performances thereof are aimed at a listener who has effectively abandoned all music previously produced in search of something different? And what cohort of the 7 or 8 billion of us does that actually encompass? Is there a market for it? And by market, I'm not asking only about the potential to make some money off it – I'm also talking of the marketplace of ideas...
I'm thinking of a jazz pianist/composer who asserted to me that the primary motive force in the history of jazz (and some other musics too, but he focused on jazz) was/is to continuously push to eliminate dissonance – that is, to steer jarringly dissonant collections of notes into a framework that removes the non-sequitur aspect and presents the listener's ears with a new idea for how to hear. The 20th century hosted quite a few successful iterations of that effort, but I've listened to plenty of those attempts and most of them were dead ends, DOA. Maybe those musicians soldiered on, playing/recording for their own personal edification and satisfaction, but no one else would ever notice or take heed.
The musics that humanity seems prepared/amenable to listen to are beat unto death. The thousands of 'new' tunes posted on www are testament to the enduring stodginess of human ears.
Will humanity evolve to hear and enjoy music that does not yet exist? Music that is truly different?
Should add here that last night I watched the film 'ENNIO' in theater. A retrospective on the life and career of Ennio Morricone. It's very long, but worth it. He was prolific, and boundary-breaking, and irrespective of how highly praised for his innovation, I find his music full of schmaltz.
Thing is, I LOVE schmaltz.
Find it here: https://releasing.dogwoof.com/ennio
Highly recommended.
I read that signing solo/bedroom acts is preferred to rock bands because former is much cheaper.
Same reason broadcasters favor reality TV - it's cheaper to produce.
Thanks both -- makes a lot of sense! But still, sad... lol
https://youtu.be/ngZ0K3lWKRc?si=9u0W35d9trWJdWh7
If you get a moment, watch legendary creator/animator/writer Hayou Miyazaki explain his disdain for AI. In a world of mass-production, souls like this still exist.
yes... in a world where everything is driven by money - we see the results in untold and myriad ways...
"... in a world where everything is driven by money..." Money's good, as far as I'm concerned. The result is that I can earn it and buy stuff I want or need. Please provide what you think would be a good option.
Thanks
enjoy your obsession, lol...
LOL, you didn't answer my question.
you didn't pay any attention to the initial comment.. why should i bother??
Good question. Do places like Muscle Shoals, Motown, or Memphis even exist?
Greta Van Fleet or Led Zeppelin? Gonna go with LZ. What rock bands highlight amazing drummers like Bonham? Tool. Singers like Maynard James Keenan today? Maybe someone has suggestions. I haven’t heard a voice that great in rock and roll for a long time.
I hope this doesn't come across as harsh or directed specifically at you, but every time I hear this sort of thing I can't help but think that tons of great new music is happening all the time, but that people just do go looking in the right place for it. Or they don't look at all, then complain that there's nothing good being created any more...
To give an example: I live in Cleveland, Ohio, USA. This past weekend we had a "Lottery League" concert event where 172 musicians from all sorts of different bands and solo acts put their names "in a hat" and had our local music community (listers + other bands) vote to jumble them all up and sort them into 43 4-piece, ad hoc bands. Each of these 43 new bands had to a couple of weeks come up with a 10-minute set of original songs, rehearse, and perform those sets live (across 3 stages from 1PM to midnight) to a crowd of hundreds of Cleveland music fans. It was an amazing experience and at least a dozen times that day I thought to myself " I would go see them again. I hope they stick around and keep playing together after the even ends." And these 172 musicians barely scratch the surface of the talent pool here.
Now, I understand that Cleveland, as the birth place of Rock'n'Roll and the home of it's Hall of Fame and Museum, has an unusually deep and talented local music scene, and that not every place in the world has what we have here. I can go to a good and engaging live show every night of the week between talented local acts, and touring national and international acts. In fact, I usually average 2-3 per week. But even if the scene isn't that deep where you live, the real power of the Internet is to make those inaccessible scenes accessible outside their physical geography.
Check out independent artists on Bandcamp, or go out and see the college kids play at the bar across town, or check out an open mic at the local art gallery/coffee house. You will absolutely be surprised what is available and how good so much of it is.
You are right that there are many musicians currently producing good, interesting music. The problem is, they have no mass market outlet for their work. Record companies no longer take chances on new acts. They don't promote new talent that does not already have a big following. Yes, check out local artists. I have been impressed by the talent out there.
My problem with Bandcamp is that finding the good stuff is like searching for a needle in a haystack. As The Honest Broker pointed out, we used to be able to hear original and interesting music on the radio. That is no longer the case as independent radio stations got gobbled up by Clear Channel and one or two other corporations.
“There will be no nostalgia in the future if the present is not properly tended to.” Definitely, even if what is made in the present can't hold a candle to what was made in the past. That's why the past is doing so well now.
CBS getting rid of its evening news is an absurd proposition for those who remember the Cronkite/Rather golden era. If its parent company wasn't behaving in such a shitty way right now, it could properly provide some aid.
I think also there is so much more to "old" stuff than simply nostalgia. I am a strong believer in and practitioner of classical education because so much older, and in some cases ancient, cultural product is genuinely worthwhile! Music, art, literature, ways of thinking, ways of living: currency bias robs us of SO much wisdom that is worth discovering.
Dan Rather’s Substack is pretty good!
I have no nostalgia now, let alone in the future. I don't pine for the past or it's contents. I like living in the present. If I listen to music of the past it's not due to nostalgia, it's because I hadn't heard it before and it's a new discovery. The past is present and the "Future lies ahead." Mort Sahl.
Network news is like 70% ads these days.
Which is a result of each of the networks now being owned by companies run by crazy and greedy assholes. Don't they know what being a "public service" is? Maybe if there were less ads and better reporting, the viewers would come back.
CBS evening news dying? To me that’s a step in the right direction. Nostalgia for the golden era or not, it does get in the way of growth .The present may not hold a candle to the past , that’s fine. For me it’s better to let the natural light inside sometimes.
Prof. Gioia, I have now gone back over two centuries to escape today’s culture. I want to experience things I may have missed in my teens and 20s/30s because I was consuming popular music. Bach makes my heart hurt. It feels so pure. The more I read about music history, the more my heart aches. Beautiful. I’m fascinated by Schumann’s melodies, Mozart’s energy and God-given tenacity, Brahms, Ravel, Beach—so many pieces I’m experiencing in a new light (or for the first time). I am falling back in love with the magic of music. I think culture needs to find its way back. Back to music in its purest form! Live instruments played by living breathing human beings that feel and think their way through a song. Someone’s personal comedy or tragedy inspired the genesis of an idea that eventually changed forms from energetic thoughts into pitches on a staff. It’s truly miraculous. Hearing a human voice. Hearing a saxophone on a street corner. SOUL.
100% perfectly put, and I am in the same place. Even something as simple - that I took for granted and largely ignored my first three or so decades on earth - as live music in the corner of a seafood restaurant on the beach. I find it entrancing now. These people are taking the time to learn and practice and make music, by choice, and for the joy of it! It feels like a tiny miracle every time someone chooses to actively create instead of passively consume. I listen intentionally, sometimes for the first time, to the backing vocals and the musicians in studio recordings and I think about the people who did session work and how they chose to get up every day and make music with their time. What a precious thing! How not to be taken for granted!
Your comment makes my heart happy. Same!! The intrinsic value of music is so incredibly healing and meaningful. Perhaps, once the pendulum swings back, we can collectively experience music again. An example that just popped in my head?
When Stravinsky first introduced “Rite of Spring” people were so moved, they rioted in the streets of Paris. Music should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable. Who’s gonna shock the system with their REAL soulful art?!! Not AI. Not Spotify Safe Playlists. People’s minds deserve to be blown away…Prof. Gioia is right though—a reflection of the times.
Well said.
We are the media now. Movies, music, MSM are nauseating copypasta regurgitations that AI could generate. Substack is the home of original creative culture.
I feel bad for people who are clinging to these failing institutions...
The fact that the corporate legacy media continues to fail so spectacularly in one of the most contentious election years in US history is really telling of how much people have given up on it. In theory, their business should be booming this year.
In what theory? Not being snarky here, I'd appreciate it if you'd explain your thoughts.
I mean that this is an election year and in the past that has meant huge demand and readership for the legacy news media. Business should be good for them and they should not be laying people off. But they are still laying staff off and face declining subscriber numbers even in what should be a busy year.
I agree. However, the state of the nation because of said politics is particularly precarious, which might (well, does) explain that, specifically within the "legacy news media," but unfortunately also within the lives of the populace at large. That's why Substack is so successful. And why Ted, in particular, is doing so well. He exudes common sense, reinforced by a strong family and a widely varied career.
Yuri, I went to the movie theater with my husband last year to see a sci-fi flick called “The Creator”. We both “pshhhh”-ed our way out of there after 15-20 minutes. I’ve never left a movie I paid for. It was pretty bad, IMHO. I think old films streamed at home is the way I’ll consume movies from now on.
I’m no fan of the SEO-optimized, algorithmic turn of the internet and want to see its demise as quickly as possible. But that ends at a nostalgia for a prelapsarian era of media that has never existed, certainly not in the US context. For those nostalgic for the golden era of CBS I recommend David Halberstam’s The Powers That Be – his gumshoe history of the rise of the big media titans and the crisis that the Vietnam War represented. It’s important to remember during every major America crisis, esp. in relation to foreign policy, the media establishment confronted the dilemma of whether to repeat the DC-line or to actually report what was happening. The actual track record is ambiguous. The recent memoir of the disgraced Marty Peretz of The New Repulbic should also cause ppl to pause and wonder what outlets are trustworthy and which are engaged in a political project.
For example, I personally wonder if TikTok has become a really important outlet for progressive/left messages that undermine the official DC-line around a certain crisis, maybe a ban on it isn’t just about mental health. And maybe a best-selling author with nice elite credentials testifying on social media before congress gives politicians just the opportunity to foment moral panic to silence it. How can I check: I’ll just google his name and the Iraqi War. Oooh, he supported that too.
"That’s because music fans (like everybody else) are increasingly turning to alternative media”. I would also say that they are engaging more with Rick Beato than they are actually engaging with real music. I have seen this happen in my own life - it is easier for me to click on a Rick Beato video than it is to sit down and listen to a side of vinyl. One of my pressing personal/spiritual projects now is to retrain my attention to realign with my own values. This erosion of my attention, my capacity for full consciousness, has definitely occurred over the last ten years - a causality of over exposure to digital media.
Same. It's tremendously sobering to confront how difficult it is to actually do - I mean, I could be reading, an actual book that I'd like to finish, right now, but here I am on Substack, yet again - but that underlines now necessary it is. My husband and I set as our focus concepts for the rest of this year and the next: wisely steward our attention/resist distraction/uncouple from screens/unmachine our life. We want to reclaim our eroded ability to focus enough to grasp and enjoy subtlety and to tune out the noise.
Yes! Very well said. Thank you for the language. This also should be considered a level of the “micro-culture” rebellion.
"Am I the only moviegoer who gags when I see this?"
I don't gag, I just don't call it that, ever. The movie I saw, in a theater, in 1977, was titled "Star Wars" and I will never call it anything else.
I will always call it "Raiders of the Lost Ark," not "Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark." Especially since "Indiana Jones and..." movies are all inferior.
Yes. Hate that change, too. How stupid do they think people are?
They think we're stupid beyond belief. But Disney is paying the price for believing that about us.
Literally nobody calls it "A New Hope" or "Episode IV". It's "Star Wars".
I’m always curious to see that old music consumption stat with granularity than released more or less than 18 months ago. I have a hunch that most of “old” music people are listening to is from the last few years
My 15 year old daughter loves The Smashing Pumpkins. Vintage!! For her, I am so excited to share my old CDs from the early 90s.
LOL The early nineties as new music to me. My music starts about a couple of hundred years ago and ends in nineteen eighty-nine. Well, except for Boz. I think his music, except for Silk Degrees, has been at its best since ninety-four's Some Change.
Ironically, I am going back a couple centuries and rediscovering music I more than likely ignored in my teens, 20s/30s except for music appreciation courses or choir. I am collecting CDs from my library and listening to them at the office, my car, and at home. So far, I am in love with the melodies Saint-Saens, Schumann, and Wolf. Bach, Brahms, & Beethoven. Stravinsky’s Firebird and Rite of Spring are my favorite pieces this week. Last week, it was Chopin’s ‘Raindrop’ prelude and Pastoral by Beethoven. The latter had me wanting to skip then stomp then cry then explore the woods by myself :)
Speaking of Chopin’s Raindrop prelude—who else feels this song is metal?! What an emo master at dark emotions. I’m trying to savor each goosebump moment, journal why, and continue my adventures in old music that is new to me!!! Boz is new to me—will have to check it out 🎶🎶suggestions always welcome.
There are the big guys: Mozart, Bach, Beethoven (I particularly like Beethoven), but I lean towards less celebrated, but nevertheless well-known, Schumann, Schubert, Debussy, and Vivaldi. Kinda funny, but I found out about Debussy when I listened to Styx's Crystal Ball album, where "Claire de Lune" is the intro to their composition, "Ballerina." The AOR groups are often mocked by "intelligent music aficionados," but there's actually a lot of good musicianship and writing to be found with them.
Hah, you are just a young'un. Boz is Boz Scaggs. Been a favorite of mine since since his most successful album "Silk Degrees" in nineteen seventy-six. Got to see him at the 1992 New Orleans Jazz Festival. Distinctive voice, which my wife and I love. He shared the stage with Carole King and Aaron Neville. Bunch of old farts, even older than I, but, boy, there's amazing music among them. As someone commented here: What's old is new. Hope you enjoy listening to Boz.
I’m still learning a lot about music, so I really appreciate your comment!! Of course I’ve heard of Boz Scaggs, but I haven’t actively listened. I’ll change that very soon. I also like Vivaldi! Quite a different “Spring” than Stravinsky, eh? :)
Glad you've heard of Boz, my heart feels better. Since I don't drive to work any more, I primarily listen to Ted's nemesis, Spotify. Only albums, no playlists. I get to hear most of my vinyl and CDs without having to select and put them on a turntable or in a player. The bottom line is that I'm lazy, and Spotify lets me listen to some of my favorite artists' recordings that are either unavailable or too expensive for my pocketbook. Regardless, Spring is good because the cold is gone. And bad because of allergies. Sort of like your comparison!
I have the opposite hunch, actually. This graph seems to suggest that the youngest people enjoy two entirely separate periods of music. Like everyone else, they enjoy the music of their childhood— the ’00s; unlike everyone else, they also enjoy the most recent stuff— the ’20s. But what they seem to enjoy far less is the music in between— the ’10s.
https://twitter.com/BobtailBennett/status/1794456770481451225
From this article:
https://archive.today/39cnP
Today I played a short set of 3 songs for the opening of an event at a big University well-known for their schools of business, law, and medicine. They have no arts programs.
Afterwards all the officers of the University and the invited dignitaries came up to congratulate me and my guitarist colleague on the performance.
But not a single student did so.
When I play at other, more arts-centered institutions, the students love it and always want to talk to me afterwards.
Reminds me of Ted's article on the decline of the Humanities, and why this is a tragedy for the development of our young people.
It pains me when I hear the alternative explanations offered for heavy smartphone/internet/social media usage and it's speedrun of setting fire to mental health:
"People with anxiety/depression are drawn to social media and the internet, it doesn't cause it or make it worse!"
"The world collapsing is causing declining mental health, not me seeing it online!"
Meanwhile, in my work with substance use clients, you hear the same thing:
"People with anxiety/depression are drawn to drugs and alcohol, it doesn't cause or make it worse!"
"My world collapsing is causing my declining mental health, not me using substances!"
New boss, same as the old boss. And we know it.
To the point on old music replacing new music, the same is true on streaming services and video games. I believe there was a report last year that all of the top-ten shows on Netflix and streaming were older shows, not what is being produced today. The top-ten most played video games are 5 years old or older. Is our culture today just not producing good enough content?
To the point of the legacy media losing subscribers and money, it is very telling that it is still occurring in what is one of the most contentious election years ever in the US. In theory, the corporate legacy media should be thriving right now, but it is not.
Isn't the old music streaming increase trend expected? The amount of new music under a given threshold (e.g. released in past 12 months) may fluctuate, but the amount of old music is increasing forever, since all new music eventually becomes old.
I had the same thought. The article suggests old music is anything over 18 months old, which probably represents 99% of the music available on streaming services at any given moment. Despite that, roughly 30% of listening is for music newer than 18 months. These facts seem to contradict the proposition that people are abandoning new music.
Loved all of your article! I especially loved (but also was so creeped out) by the disturbing data with Internet Addiction. It may sound weird, but the more I come to Substack, the more I find myself distancing myself from the "Internet" if that makes sense. Like yes, I am still technically on, but it feels different and more real. I also don't feel FOMO if I don't get on this particular platform for a while, and maybe that's because the interactions are so much longer and genuine.
Again, loved the post!
Substack is different than social media and I would rather spend time here than on any social media sites.
Agreed. Calling it social media doesn't even seem completely accurate. If for no other reason, the goal doesn't seem to be to addict and make angry/rot the brains of users, which is what social media is nowadays.
Without knowing what FOMO means I can still understand your message because you spent some time putting it together. What is different about this substack?
I think about what I am going to type and how I am going to format the output from those thoughts. What I don't do, as far as I am aware, is bang out many short, snap answers. Scrolling down, the length of people's posts here seems to be greater than in a lot of other fast-paced, say it for the dopamine-maybe, outlets.
100 percent. There are no character limits either which allows for well thought out responses. I am sure if someone wanted to, they could make their feed too busy to handle and also with bad faith actors. But if that's the goal, why come here? At least in the space I have created on Substack, there seems to be a desire for the genuine exchange of ideas and supporting one another.
FOMO means fear of missing out by the way, for future reference. :)
"fear of missing out" is wrong thinking. If you missed out on something, it was because you had something else better to do, and that's a good thing.
Cheers Preston. FOMO - gives me a bit more understanding of why I occasionally go down a youtube rabbithole. I know they are designed to be addictive but I couldn't work out what is addictive about them, to me - what am I missing out on? It could be that acting on me. Knowing that acronym gives me a little armour :)
Always happy to provide a little knowledge! And yes, that fear id absolutely preyed upon by social media.
I for one am very excited for what the micro culture can offer us. I see little loss in the death or weakening of macro-culture creators. Imagine the simple beauty of a child singing a song his family wrote.
I suppose I shouldn't have been shocked by the Adobe/Ansel Adams thing, but I was. Way to alienate a huge section of your customer base.
“There will be no nostalgia in the future if the present is not properly tended to.”
What's the bad news?