When I interviewed Honeyboy Edwards, who was with Johnson when he died, I asked specifically about Sweet Home Chicago. He told me Johnson taught it to him not too long before he died, which makes sense as Johnson recorded it a year or so before his murder.
Are these interviews available? I’d love to read them.
Your comments here have given me enough faith to continue believing that RJ did the recordings! So...thank you for that.
Anyways, the idea that it wasn’t RJ on the recordings is fun to think about. Lol I mean, what if it was actually a British guy from Liverpool? Lol Sounds like the start of a good novel or an episode of Quantum Leap :)
I didn't include the bit about "Sweet Home Chicago" in the published article - not sure why, but at the time it didn't seem to fit. I only had about 5 minutes with Honeyboy on the phone, and he was pretty hard of hearing by then, so it was one of the more frustrating interviews I'd ever done. But he did play "Sweet Home Chicago" when I saw him a week or so after this interview ran. http://www.turbula.net/music/interview-edwards.php
You are such a gifted writer, and so thoughtful and insightful in your assessments of others (what drives, haunts, or limits them). This wasn't a topic I thought would have interested me, but I should have known that you would utterly capture my imagination by the end of the second paragraph.
Amazing. What a tragedy that this book’s achievement could be obscured by both the biases of the publisher and the deep personal issues of its original author. I hope some of the archival recordings can be brought out as well.
Dr. Gioia, thank you for such meticulous and open-minded analysis of Mack McCormick's history. I've been following the Robert Johnson research since 1973 and have been aware of McCormick's substantive research and the controversies. As a behavioral consultant and licensed psychotherapist, I've been able to view his research and his life in the context of his Bi-Polar Disorder and co-morbid paranoia. You do the same, Ted, with great respect, free of stigma. Your "Scandal" article is a useful piece of literary criticism because it cues us to understand what we're going to read... Mack McCormack's valuable book is most valuable when its full context is understood. Again, thank you, sir, for your pithy analyses and spirit of fair-mindedness. -Doug Pratt, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
The more I read your articles, the more I realize music is a world unto itself. Every recording reveals a history of people, place and time offered up to us as a gift. Fascinating.
I really care about the blues and music scholarship but can't help being reminded of the old joke against academia that 'The alleged works of William Shakespeare were written by a different author of the same name.'
“I’ll let other decide who, among these various individuals, enjoys the perks of privilege and power, and can meaningfully invite others to participate in their projects.
Having a condescending academic like Troutman in the room would have killed any chance of getting these musicians to open up. They have to trust you, and condescension does not breed trust.
I have worked with a small Southern non-profit (as pro bono consultant and later on their board) providing support & gigs for, and documenting contributions of, old-school regional musicians contributing to our shared culture and history. My blood pressure still goes up thinking about a strategic planning workshop that turned into what I now recognize as a struggle session when a young white female INTERN accused the founders of 'white saviorism' in her (likely distorted) understanding of opinions of the black people (other college kids) she knew.
The founders lived hand-to-mouth while drumming up funding for heating oil, medicine/dentures, or fixing trailer roofs; going to drink houses discovering other musicians; finally gaining the trust of truly marginalized artists and helping them gain access to gigs, income, exposure, music sales, and livelihoods while that intern was growing up as a judgmental trust fund baby adding no value to society, at that time or probably ever.
We put considerable time and effort into reaching and encouraging community, partnership, and more among communities one would expect to care about the blues and similar American musical traditions. With the exception of a few high profile successful musicians, the payoff was negligible. If preserving and understanding American musical history matters, it cannot be left to 'inclusive', 'diverse', or 'invited' sponsors.
Money where your mouth is, my friends, or tell your story walking.
The older I get, the more I think that everything the great bluesmen wanted me to know about them, they sang and played. Maybe that should be enough, instead of this constant excavation and analysis of their lives like they were mummies of medicine men from the Bronze Age.
When it comes down to it, who can claim to "know" those folks from the past? And even if you had a time machine, and could meet them personally, they wouldn't be what generations of writers, critics, and analysts made them out to be. Trust the songs, and how you hear them; that's real.
One thing I would point out about Troutman is that he has written the single best and most well researched book about the history of Hawaiian slide guitar and its influence on American popular music that I've seen. I'm sure you're familiar with it, Ted. If not, this is it https://uncpress.org/book/9781469659091/kika-kila/
I don't know him at all but I appreciate his work and, like you, don't envy his role in editing and having to make tough decisions in the course of bringing McCormick's book to us. I look forward to getting my copy of it and thanks for your testimony...best...oj
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you" -- Kurt Cobain, Robert Johnson's eventual successor in more ways than one
I'm sure there's a lot we'll never know about Johnson, but he haunts people in a way that reminds me, whenever I hear "Hellhound on my Trail", of what Greil Marcus says about his music in *Mystery Train* --he shows us America as so many are forced to see it: as a world without redemption, salvation, or even rest. "Robert Johnson for President: A Stone in Every Passway and a Hellhound on Every Trail".
1. Why is there no mention in your article about the book on Johnson by Bruce Conforth and Gayle Dean Wardlow that was published a few years ago and is considered by many to be the definitive work on Johnson? Does McCormick's work add to their work or contradict it? If the latter I would be leery of the contradictions.
2. The book does not include the fourth photograph of Johnson or the interviews with Johnson's sisters because he "borrowed" the photo and never returned it and the sisters had a contract with Steve LaVere.
3. McCormick was responsible for the fact that the box set of the complete Robert Johnson was delayed by 15 years because he claimed rights that, in some cases, were forged. Eventually Columbia decided to go ahead anyway.
4. For me, the most disturbing thing in Hall's article is that McCormick falsified information so it would humiliate people who tried to publish it without his approval which includes his contribution to the book on Texas blues that he worked on for a number of years in the 1960s with the most highly regarded and respected writer on blues, Paul Oliver. A few years ago the book was published which includes fabrications created by McCormick. He was still alive when the book was published and could have corrected these fabrications but never did. Maybe he was pissed off at Alan Governor who was supervising the project because Governor refused McCormicks request that Paul Oliver's name be removed even though Paul was the one who did the actual writing. I don't care what mental illness McCormick suffered from - what he did to Paul Oliver is unconscionable .
Mack was seriously impaired by mental illness. "He could have..." seems to miss the reality of the profound, chronic mental illness he struggled with. Please, let's all show compassion for Mr. McCormack. -Doug Pratt, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
When someone with mental problems hurts someone else who should one feel more compassion for - the perpetrator or the victim? McCormick's mental problems may explain some of his actions but it doesn't excuse them.
The question has always been, do mental health problems entrench egotism or the other way round? The present day answer seems to tend towards excusing anyone with a diagnosis, while at the same time expanding the panoply of recognised illnesses.
Fascinating article - thank you. A small point but why would a Texas musician include the line “I got women in Vicksburg, clean up into Tennessee” in a song?
As mentioned in the article, I don't believe the Texas theory. But Mack would reply that Robert Johnson mentions 3 countries, 3 states, and 11 cities in his songs—specifically Chicago, East Monroe, Friars Point, Gulfport, Hot Springs, Memphis, Norfolk, Rosedale, Vicksburg, West Helena, and West Memphis. The states mentioned in the songs are California, Arkansas, and Tennessee. He put all these on a map, and worked out itineraries. He even purchased old maps to figure out what roads were used when Robert Johnson was alive. So he was well aware of all the geographical complexities—and would certainly have warned against relying on any one city or state as a definitive indicator. The more salient fact, he would have asserted, was that Robert Johnson made all his recordings in Texas, at a time when musicians living in Mississippi would have traveled to Chicago to record. I don't think any of this amounts to proof of a Texas origin for Johnson, but the lyrics themselves don't give us a conclusive refutation.
In Tuscaloosa, Alabama in the 1980s, I befriended Johnny Shines. We'd play together and talk Blues history. I'd take him to Blues concerts and my friends would bring him vitamins. He spoke clearly about his friend, Robert Johnson. It seemed sometimes he was repeating some of the stories we've read in the Blues histories of the 60s and 70s, but I also got the feeling Johnny was being genuine about most of his stories. He never said anything that might lead to Mack McCormack's later hypotheses. And I bet if Johnny heard those, he'd be able to dispel them with credible anecdotes. -Doug Pratt, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Troutman sounds like an entitled gas bag. I've lost more money writing about the blues than I've ever made off it.
Daved Honeyboy Edwards knew and toured with Johnson, and lived 70 years after his murder. If that wasn't Johnson on record, Edwards would have known.
Plus, Edwards' repertoire drew upon many of the same songs Johnson recorded.
When I interviewed Honeyboy Edwards, who was with Johnson when he died, I asked specifically about Sweet Home Chicago. He told me Johnson taught it to him not too long before he died, which makes sense as Johnson recorded it a year or so before his murder.
Are these interviews available? I’d love to read them.
Your comments here have given me enough faith to continue believing that RJ did the recordings! So...thank you for that.
Anyways, the idea that it wasn’t RJ on the recordings is fun to think about. Lol I mean, what if it was actually a British guy from Liverpool? Lol Sounds like the start of a good novel or an episode of Quantum Leap :)
I didn't include the bit about "Sweet Home Chicago" in the published article - not sure why, but at the time it didn't seem to fit. I only had about 5 minutes with Honeyboy on the phone, and he was pretty hard of hearing by then, so it was one of the more frustrating interviews I'd ever done. But he did play "Sweet Home Chicago" when I saw him a week or so after this interview ran. http://www.turbula.net/music/interview-edwards.php
Great point about Honeyboy!
You are such a gifted writer, and so thoughtful and insightful in your assessments of others (what drives, haunts, or limits them). This wasn't a topic I thought would have interested me, but I should have known that you would utterly capture my imagination by the end of the second paragraph.
Me too.
Amazing. What a tragedy that this book’s achievement could be obscured by both the biases of the publisher and the deep personal issues of its original author. I hope some of the archival recordings can be brought out as well.
Dr. Gioia, thank you for such meticulous and open-minded analysis of Mack McCormick's history. I've been following the Robert Johnson research since 1973 and have been aware of McCormick's substantive research and the controversies. As a behavioral consultant and licensed psychotherapist, I've been able to view his research and his life in the context of his Bi-Polar Disorder and co-morbid paranoia. You do the same, Ted, with great respect, free of stigma. Your "Scandal" article is a useful piece of literary criticism because it cues us to understand what we're going to read... Mack McCormack's valuable book is most valuable when its full context is understood. Again, thank you, sir, for your pithy analyses and spirit of fair-mindedness. -Doug Pratt, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
The more I read your articles, the more I realize music is a world unto itself. Every recording reveals a history of people, place and time offered up to us as a gift. Fascinating.
I really care about the blues and music scholarship but can't help being reminded of the old joke against academia that 'The alleged works of William Shakespeare were written by a different author of the same name.'
“I’ll let other decide who, among these various individuals, enjoys the perks of privilege and power, and can meaningfully invite others to participate in their projects.
Troutman, of course…”
Slick!
Having a condescending academic like Troutman in the room would have killed any chance of getting these musicians to open up. They have to trust you, and condescension does not breed trust.
People like Troutman are one of the reasons why I cannot stand academics anymore.
Eager to read this. Regardless of what McCormick found, "Robert Johnson" has taken a place in world culture, kin to Orpheus and John Henry.
I have worked with a small Southern non-profit (as pro bono consultant and later on their board) providing support & gigs for, and documenting contributions of, old-school regional musicians contributing to our shared culture and history. My blood pressure still goes up thinking about a strategic planning workshop that turned into what I now recognize as a struggle session when a young white female INTERN accused the founders of 'white saviorism' in her (likely distorted) understanding of opinions of the black people (other college kids) she knew.
The founders lived hand-to-mouth while drumming up funding for heating oil, medicine/dentures, or fixing trailer roofs; going to drink houses discovering other musicians; finally gaining the trust of truly marginalized artists and helping them gain access to gigs, income, exposure, music sales, and livelihoods while that intern was growing up as a judgmental trust fund baby adding no value to society, at that time or probably ever.
We put considerable time and effort into reaching and encouraging community, partnership, and more among communities one would expect to care about the blues and similar American musical traditions. With the exception of a few high profile successful musicians, the payoff was negligible. If preserving and understanding American musical history matters, it cannot be left to 'inclusive', 'diverse', or 'invited' sponsors.
Money where your mouth is, my friends, or tell your story walking.
The older I get, the more I think that everything the great bluesmen wanted me to know about them, they sang and played. Maybe that should be enough, instead of this constant excavation and analysis of their lives like they were mummies of medicine men from the Bronze Age.
Yes, that's the crux of it. In the end, it's only the music that matters.
When it comes down to it, who can claim to "know" those folks from the past? And even if you had a time machine, and could meet them personally, they wouldn't be what generations of writers, critics, and analysts made them out to be. Trust the songs, and how you hear them; that's real.
Excellent point.
One thing I would point out about Troutman is that he has written the single best and most well researched book about the history of Hawaiian slide guitar and its influence on American popular music that I've seen. I'm sure you're familiar with it, Ted. If not, this is it https://uncpress.org/book/9781469659091/kika-kila/
I don't know him at all but I appreciate his work and, like you, don't envy his role in editing and having to make tough decisions in the course of bringing McCormick's book to us. I look forward to getting my copy of it and thanks for your testimony...best...oj
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you" -- Kurt Cobain, Robert Johnson's eventual successor in more ways than one
I'm sure there's a lot we'll never know about Johnson, but he haunts people in a way that reminds me, whenever I hear "Hellhound on my Trail", of what Greil Marcus says about his music in *Mystery Train* --he shows us America as so many are forced to see it: as a world without redemption, salvation, or even rest. "Robert Johnson for President: A Stone in Every Passway and a Hellhound on Every Trail".
A few comments
1. Why is there no mention in your article about the book on Johnson by Bruce Conforth and Gayle Dean Wardlow that was published a few years ago and is considered by many to be the definitive work on Johnson? Does McCormick's work add to their work or contradict it? If the latter I would be leery of the contradictions.
2. The book does not include the fourth photograph of Johnson or the interviews with Johnson's sisters because he "borrowed" the photo and never returned it and the sisters had a contract with Steve LaVere.
3. McCormick was responsible for the fact that the box set of the complete Robert Johnson was delayed by 15 years because he claimed rights that, in some cases, were forged. Eventually Columbia decided to go ahead anyway.
4. For me, the most disturbing thing in Hall's article is that McCormick falsified information so it would humiliate people who tried to publish it without his approval which includes his contribution to the book on Texas blues that he worked on for a number of years in the 1960s with the most highly regarded and respected writer on blues, Paul Oliver. A few years ago the book was published which includes fabrications created by McCormick. He was still alive when the book was published and could have corrected these fabrications but never did. Maybe he was pissed off at Alan Governor who was supervising the project because Governor refused McCormicks request that Paul Oliver's name be removed even though Paul was the one who did the actual writing. I don't care what mental illness McCormick suffered from - what he did to Paul Oliver is unconscionable .
Mack was seriously impaired by mental illness. "He could have..." seems to miss the reality of the profound, chronic mental illness he struggled with. Please, let's all show compassion for Mr. McCormack. -Doug Pratt, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
When someone with mental problems hurts someone else who should one feel more compassion for - the perpetrator or the victim? McCormick's mental problems may explain some of his actions but it doesn't excuse them.
The question has always been, do mental health problems entrench egotism or the other way round? The present day answer seems to tend towards excusing anyone with a diagnosis, while at the same time expanding the panoply of recognised illnesses.
"The Blues Come to Texas" was published in 2019.
Mack McCormick died in November 2015.
This story is both fascinating and 🍌🍌bananas.
Fascinating article - thank you. A small point but why would a Texas musician include the line “I got women in Vicksburg, clean up into Tennessee” in a song?
As mentioned in the article, I don't believe the Texas theory. But Mack would reply that Robert Johnson mentions 3 countries, 3 states, and 11 cities in his songs—specifically Chicago, East Monroe, Friars Point, Gulfport, Hot Springs, Memphis, Norfolk, Rosedale, Vicksburg, West Helena, and West Memphis. The states mentioned in the songs are California, Arkansas, and Tennessee. He put all these on a map, and worked out itineraries. He even purchased old maps to figure out what roads were used when Robert Johnson was alive. So he was well aware of all the geographical complexities—and would certainly have warned against relying on any one city or state as a definitive indicator. The more salient fact, he would have asserted, was that Robert Johnson made all his recordings in Texas, at a time when musicians living in Mississippi would have traveled to Chicago to record. I don't think any of this amounts to proof of a Texas origin for Johnson, but the lyrics themselves don't give us a conclusive refutation.
Ah, good points.
Which "3 countries," though? You can't just rattle off Mack's possible comment like that and then leave off the counties!
Lemme guess; there's the USA, England, and France? USA, France, and Mexico? USA, France, and Luxembourg? Is Tierra del Fuego a country?
Countries, not counties...dang autoincorrect!
In Tuscaloosa, Alabama in the 1980s, I befriended Johnny Shines. We'd play together and talk Blues history. I'd take him to Blues concerts and my friends would bring him vitamins. He spoke clearly about his friend, Robert Johnson. It seemed sometimes he was repeating some of the stories we've read in the Blues histories of the 60s and 70s, but I also got the feeling Johnny was being genuine about most of his stories. He never said anything that might lead to Mack McCormack's later hypotheses. And I bet if Johnny heard those, he'd be able to dispel them with credible anecdotes. -Doug Pratt, Atlanta, Georgia, USA