Interesting that you write this the same week the George Carlin documentary arrived. If you want to know what counterculture used to be, he even ranted against "Save the Planet" when that became too much of a mainstream, toothless movement for him. (As a side note, it's scary and sad how relevant even his 80s/90s material still is.)
While the book world is diversifying in the ethnicity of its authors, which is a good thing, the bios of publishing writers remain pretty much the same: graduates of elite colleges and MFA programs. It’s most startling to look at the bios of the people publishing in the small and micro presses and seeing a whole lot of writers with the same elite bios. When I started out, the small
and micro presses had plenty of blue collar writers.
It doesn't matter much if the book world is "diversifying in the ethnicity of its authors", money talks. They are (mostly) all gonna become the same boring hacks that previous writers have been forced to become. Changing the "Colors" of the covers doesn't matter much if they are just following along.
On another note - I do believe other Countercultures will rise up & burst through all the dreck, as has happened many times in the past.
I definitely see your point. I think literary fiction has become a genre filled with lightly-flawed heroes. A lot of novels these days remind me of that old job interview answer: “I think my greatest weakness is that I care too much.”
I think we said much of the same thing. Big time publishing is an elite corporate enterprise regardless of its publicly-stated populist beliefs and goals—with academia being a direct conduit into that corporate enterprise. And, now, it seems that that the corporate/academic relationship has made its way into the small/micro press world. In those small magazines in the 90s, I was being published alongside a lot of blue collar poets. There weren’t near as many MFAs in the bios back then. I was a poor non-MFA kid poet on the rise. But I think publishing has, by and large, stopped including economic class as part of its measure of diversity.
If you want to be alive, why dont some of you go and read the amazing books of fiction and poetry, and see how much your missing. Im reading this thread and this writing is gnarled or vague or hyperbolic like most of the assumptive lists by Ted Goia. For one thing, there are more novels and books of poetry that are NOT the same, but tell many wonderful, terrifying stories with TOTALLY original and HIGHLY ARTISTIC techniques not seen too often before or at best, rarely.
Go out and get yourselves a copy of current Cave Canem Leader Tyehimba Jess' OLIO, a rollicking kaleidiscope meticulously researched of African American artists in the nineteenth century, the tribulations and triumphs that combine to form the finest 'long poem"in the lasts fifty years or more of American literature. Or read the scathing poetry/political to the heart and blood books by Mai Der Vang- Yellow Rain-exposing the biological warfare bombs used by the US on the Laotian peope during the Vietnam War, complete with maps and Pentagon reports and crafted into a book that sits like a grenade similar to some of Arab-American Phi Metres work that includes a very skillfull use of the "erasure" technique. And how about Honore Jeffers' The Age of Phillis?, a very fine writer's description of the battles of the great poet Phyllis Wheatley who made Thomas Jefferson show himself for the biggot that he was. Go find the poetry of South Korean wizard Kim Hyesoon and have, per Emily Dickenson, the top of your head come off at the unsurpassable surrealist imagery. Bring much duct tape. You will need at least one roll for each of her seven books, plus her friends Kim Yideum and Don Mee Choi (also her translator). Top it off with Douglas Kearney's poetry, if only for mindboggling typography.
As a fully committed member of whatever counterculture still exists (Burning Ambulance - fully independent since 2010!), all these tweets say to me is that, to quote Irving Berlin, "popular music is popular because a lot of people like it." And who cares? Personally, I have no trouble finding low-profile ("underground"/"counterculture") art, and never have. Sure, a record or a book or a movie with a million-dollar PR and advertising budget is gonna be easier to hear about than something shoved into the world with nothing but the love of its creator to propel it. But that's all the more reason why I choose to write about the latter. Want to support the counterculture? Instead of wasting your time bitching about pop fluff, which ultimately means nothing, spend your finite mortal lifespan alerting people to the good stuff that's everywhere...if you know where to find it. I don't even write negative reviews anymore. There's too much good music I could be writing about instead.
You hit a key element there: "if you know where to find it." If you know anything about Ted Gioia, he is constantly on the lookout for new music and fresh ideas. Part of the point he is making (I think) is that even a lot of independent art is tired because its underpinnings are more tied to a hustle-culture mindset than to actually asking something of the experiencer.
Another key is knowing or at least having a sense that something is missing. I fervently believe a big issue is the subversion and subduction of arts education in K-12 for "computer literacy," which at this point comes naturally through modern living. Sure, if you dig deep enough, anything can seem derivative. But there's an element of fresh needing to also be at least slightly unpredictable if not a little uncomfortable at first. I'm not talking about shock value, which is banal and boring unless you've lived a Kimmy Schmidt life, but that brain tickle that happens with a moment of surprise that was generated by an effort of creative force. I am probably not making sense here, but hey... I tried. And thanks for efforts in promoting creative works. I could not find Burning Ambience when I searched for it. Print only? Cheers.
Your post has me pondering what feels like an oxymoron: Is there such a thing as a powerful counterculture? And if there is such a thing then is there any powerful counterculture today? Though I’m not even sure how to define power. A few thoughts come to mind. There was a time when a major film studio would produce a movie like Taxi Driver. Remember when Snoop Dogg was dangerous? He’s now a spokesperson for multiple mainstream products. I think the mainstream distributors of art were once far more willing to take chances on the weird—the countercultural. But we live in a world where CODA is deemed to be the Best Picture.
If counter culture is dead then why did Substack succeed the way it has. Substack gave all of those cancelled by the MSM a place to be heard. Substack counter culture until very recently.
Already been there: tantric Buddhism, rainbow bridge.
"To be alive in this beautiful, self-organizing universe — to participate in the dance of life with senses to perceive it, lungs that breathe it, organs that draw nourishment from it — is a wonder beyond words."
Yeah, I agree with what you’re saying here. And I also wonder if, in a capitalistic country, we are forced to measure the power of a counterculture by its capitalist success? Or at least the size of the audience? If a counterculture happens alone in a forest, does it make a sound when it falls?
Any decent counter-culture doesn’t give a damn about capitalism, almost by definition… at least in the US. Also, in my limited experience with the C-C, people are mainly doing things for themselves or to impress a small group of peers without much regard to what the larger world thinks.
Another thing… the corporate monoculture creates its own version of a counter-culture to sell to people and many people can’t tell the difference.
All good points. I’m thinking of a counterculture that speaks to more than a small audience of like-minded folks. A counterculture that challenges and changes the dominant cultural. But that kind of counterculture does have a short shelf life, doesn’t it?
Countercultures do seem to burn out pretty quickly. Punk was, what ‘77 to ‘79? The movements get commodified and the frontier of dissent moves someplace else.
At one point I saw I was using words like "fantastic" way too much in my reviews and wondered if I was reviewing records or just praising them. But after a few minutes, I came to the same conclusion you have; there's just a LOT of (objectively) good music out there.
I stopped writing book reviews over twenty years ago. And I’ve only provided about five book “blurbs” to be used to promote other people’s books. Why? I just got tired of seeing the word "essential” applied to everything out there.
Is anyone else familiar with the Little Village Foundation in the Bay Area? Run by a musician/producer, they produce CDs and concerts for musicians whose music is not in genres supported by the dominant paradigm. My roots guitarist friend Mary Flower literally received a surprise phone call from them a couple of years ago offering to produce a recording for her -- a great experience.
It strikes me that having a counter-culture requires having a culture — that is, having a commonly accepted set of standards and ideals and cultural norms in general. "When everybody's somebody, then nobody's anybody." If anything goes, then there is no grain to go against — it's just a cultural hodge-podge.
You've stated well and succinctly the reason that "counter-culture" no longer has any real meaning: there is no specific culture to which a counter-movement is possible. What we have now is a collection of cultures, many of which are counter to others. Some stick with some set of old traditions, others embrace some new combination of mores, beliefs, and values.
If there is no counter culture then why has Substack been so successful? It was Substack that gave those cancelled on the msm a place to speak to those looking for alternatives. Unfortunately Substack is no longer that place. The sheep are now gaslighting us on Substack.
Ever occur to you that if you’re not aware of the counter-culture, then you’re not part of it? That, perhaps, you’re the culture they’re currently counter to? It’s not for you, that’s why you can’t see it or recognize it. Why would you expect it to take the same forms it did from 1950 to 2000, or whatever span of time you want to refer to? The world has changed. Alt-weeklies? Seriously? Weekly publications, much less monthly ones, are irrelevant before they hit the press.
You keep on blaming the ‘culture,’ and young people for the corporate consolidation of various creative industries that was largely perpetrated by people in your generation. I went to APW in Portland in 2019 and I was amazed by all the indie publishing that’s happening. Yeah, cinema isn’t what it was, but again, capitalism. At some point they decided that every movie should make a billion dollars and be bland enough to past muster in totalitarian regimes.
And sure, comics are finding it harder to make jokes that punch down at people who have been marginalized or even victimized. You have a problem with that? Personally I don’t. Generally a lot of people are sick of a culture that finds humor in making fun of queer kids, etc. you might even say that they’re “counter” that culture. Oh my, are they part of a counter culture?
Do you think your grandparents’ generation understood or approved of your youth culture?
I don't know what your cultural preferences are, but I agree with you.
I am part of a sub-sub-culture.
Very little on the streaming channels or in the movies is part of that.
I watch my alma mater channel which has clean funny innovative programming.
(BYUTV)
Their comedy show Studio C is skit driven like SNL, but I can watch it with my young grandchildren ages 10 & 12. It's their favorite show. Lots of insider cultural references, too. They re-did the Joan of Arc story as a docudrama, they have a western series, an outer space series, a knight in shining armor series, and a kids solving mystery series, but all driven with values that are counter-culture, and spiritually oriented.
I think the Christian culture in general is now counter-culture, and that mainstream media conglomerates have no use for it.
Regnery is the publishing house that has all the conservative books on it.
I think you're giving way too much credit to "counter culture" as a "frontier or artistic production that's building new and exciting ways of understanding the world." Counter-culture is dope, sloppy dress, 'free love', and lack of visible means of support, all whilst demanding the mainstream majority give them respect for freeloading and breaking stuff that is vital to a healthy ongoing culture.
Wow, you must really hate Jesus, it’s hard to think of a more countercultural figure than him. My goodness, what are you even doing here? No counter-culture, no jazz, no Ted Gioia, no newsletter on which to make strange comments.
Your endlessly repetitive, and mud-slinging rants are quite one-sided. Of course far-left radical extremists are all that you say, but so are the far-right, radical extremists! I was part of that "counter-culture" of the late '60s/early '70s, and I learned long ago, that those who are on either extreme resemble each other far more than the group they claim to align with.
While at UCLA, in the midst of demonstrations protesting the Vietnam War, and Kent State shooting of unarmed students, I met a fiery leftist, who had just transferred from Yale or some other Ivy League school. At some point, he shared that at his previous school, he had been a big supporter of the war, and quite the conservative. It became quite clear that jumping from the extreme right to extreme left was as easy as changing his shorts!
That you reveal your disgust with extreme leftists, while giving a pass to extreme right-wingers, even defending extreme evangelicals (who only in a Bizarro World, could possibly see in Trump, some kind of Christ-like being)... Yet you flail away on the biases others may display, as if you're Mr. Objective. Quit pretending, you are highly biased, and you also resemble many of the things you are calling others. But then we know that is was that master propagandist, Goebbels, who advised their extremists to, "Accuse your opponent of that which you are guilty of."
Something which extremists, whether of the left, or the right, appear to be following quite zealously these days...
A fascinating take on a deep-seated problem. This monoclonal culture seems to be everywhere and nowhere; and I think it's "nowhere" only because too few actually discuss it openly. Aren't universities supposed to be where young minds discover new things and are challenged? We all know that's not the case as speakers who are "controversial" are run off campus amid riots, in some cases. And words themselves are deemed unspeakable, without any consideration that a word is a snapshot of an idea, so by extension when you "cancel" words you are canceling ideas. At some point, you start running out of ideas! (That you can talk about.) Very interesting post.
I followed the Scorsese thread from Discussing Film to IndieWire. I enjoyed that very much. One's age is definitely a factor in whether or not you view these times as lacking a counter culture. I was in college when one of my best friends was being shot up in Vietnam. I was fortunate to draw a high number in the first draft lottery. My formative years were filled with high profile assassinations. There were people in the streets and an accompanying soundtrack. What I was not aware of at the time was that we were "driving into the future while looking in the rearview mirror." The music that I listen to now, other than straight ahead jazz, blues & funk, is not in English. Around 1990 I discovered a whole new universe of music that I loved. It came from Guadeloupe, Martinique, T&T and Haiti. I then ventured into Africa and found some of the best music that I had ever heard. Some of it was retro like classic pre-Castro Cuban big band. As I age I think my appreciation for various art forms craves authenticity in whatever medium. These are my personal feelings. YMMV. I am sure that counter culture exists and will inform the future in uplifting transcendent ways. At least I hope that this is the case because the soul of the world needs it badly.
This is great, though it doesn't entirely fit with my experience as a consumer of culture. In the last year I've read a few excellent self-published novels, gone to a few indie rock shows that are decidedly not mainstream, and enjoyed a wide variety of online writing.
I wonder then if there *is* a counterculture but that it is thinly spread across dozens of different niches and genres. Countercultural art is out there, but it can't coalesce. This is no better when it comes to pushing back on mainstream culture, and monoculture amounts to a landgrab against a weak and divided enemy.
Substack is actually then a great example of this. Lots of great nonmainstream writing happens on Substack, but the individual support for writers doesn't easily translate into the Substack Monthly periodical or anything like that.
No one can afford to be countercultural - everything but the air (stay tuned) has been monetized, so it costs too much just to survive. We're all wage slaves now.
The culture around squatting has certainly diminished in the UK since the 1980's. Economic & Policy changes affecting housing, welfare rights and living wage opportunities have sadly eroded the chances of many young original minds & creative thinkers/musicians/writers/performers/artists/artisans etcetera who can think for themselves, ......
- (without being 'taught' how to regurgitate recycled countercultural theories & academic jargon through university systems)...
......of actually having the time and space to be creative unless, perhaps, they are living in a tent city & possibly being creative with a bottle of methadone.
These 14 tweets are all about media of one kind or other. Of course, over the past seventy years we have become a media-obsessed society. One could argue that our concept of a counterculture stems from the time of the Beats, a media-oriented bunch, although there are deeper arguments of a much longer oppositional stance to the straight world, which I think is the essence of a counterculture. See Ken Goffman’s “ Counterculture Through the Ages: From Abraham to Acid House” among others. (Goffman is better known as R.U. Sirius, a media counterculturalist of some note.) However, one might also argue that culture is a different thing from media, that culture is a matter of the way one actually lives, not just how one presents to the world.
It is quite possible that the last place to find a meaningful counterculture is in media, particularly social media. Perhaps it’s hiding in all the outlying agricultural areas of new, young farmers trying to grow food in more sustainable ways. Of course, they communicate with various publications and are social, but they’re the ones with an oppositional stance to the way things are done and an eye to the future. And, yes, they have their own music! I’m pretty sure that sniffing around large corporate media operations will only show you the corpse of last year’s sensation, not the living, breathing mess that future life will be. Nothing wrong with being a little covert these days.
I wonder if the sameness of media and entertainment is a consequence of shareholder primacy (SP) business culture. Under SP culture the objective of business is shareholder value; financial metrics are prioritized above all else.
Fifty years ago, business culture was stakeholder capitalism. This link shows a brief description of who economic policy before 1980 selected *against* shareholder primacy.
In the 1980's policy changed to create an environment that selected from SP culture. The culture was maximally SC in the 1960's and 1970's, and maximally SP in the 1910's & 1920's and 2010's and 2020's see figure.
As far as media and culture industries are concerned today, under SP culture, predictable profitability is paramount since these two things are most rewarded by the stock market. Under SC culture the emphasis is on beating the competition as measured by a variety of metrics, not just share prices.
Interesting that you write this the same week the George Carlin documentary arrived. If you want to know what counterculture used to be, he even ranted against "Save the Planet" when that became too much of a mainstream, toothless movement for him. (As a side note, it's scary and sad how relevant even his 80s/90s material still is.)
I’ll check that doc out. Didn’t know about it. 🙏
Please, please, please give us a long-winded, in-depth analysis!
Noice noice
The moment I saw that, I knew it was going to be about Chagnon.
While the book world is diversifying in the ethnicity of its authors, which is a good thing, the bios of publishing writers remain pretty much the same: graduates of elite colleges and MFA programs. It’s most startling to look at the bios of the people publishing in the small and micro presses and seeing a whole lot of writers with the same elite bios. When I started out, the small
and micro presses had plenty of blue collar writers.
It doesn't matter much if the book world is "diversifying in the ethnicity of its authors", money talks. They are (mostly) all gonna become the same boring hacks that previous writers have been forced to become. Changing the "Colors" of the covers doesn't matter much if they are just following along.
On another note - I do believe other Countercultures will rise up & burst through all the dreck, as has happened many times in the past.
I definitely see your point. I think literary fiction has become a genre filled with lightly-flawed heroes. A lot of novels these days remind me of that old job interview answer: “I think my greatest weakness is that I care too much.”
Very good !
Why is that a good thing? Are the books better?
I think we said much of the same thing. Big time publishing is an elite corporate enterprise regardless of its publicly-stated populist beliefs and goals—with academia being a direct conduit into that corporate enterprise. And, now, it seems that that the corporate/academic relationship has made its way into the small/micro press world. In those small magazines in the 90s, I was being published alongside a lot of blue collar poets. There weren’t near as many MFAs in the bios back then. I was a poor non-MFA kid poet on the rise. But I think publishing has, by and large, stopped including economic class as part of its measure of diversity.
Long ago, shoe-leather journalism was a small step up from being a bartender or stevedore.
If you want to be alive, why dont some of you go and read the amazing books of fiction and poetry, and see how much your missing. Im reading this thread and this writing is gnarled or vague or hyperbolic like most of the assumptive lists by Ted Goia. For one thing, there are more novels and books of poetry that are NOT the same, but tell many wonderful, terrifying stories with TOTALLY original and HIGHLY ARTISTIC techniques not seen too often before or at best, rarely.
Go out and get yourselves a copy of current Cave Canem Leader Tyehimba Jess' OLIO, a rollicking kaleidiscope meticulously researched of African American artists in the nineteenth century, the tribulations and triumphs that combine to form the finest 'long poem"in the lasts fifty years or more of American literature. Or read the scathing poetry/political to the heart and blood books by Mai Der Vang- Yellow Rain-exposing the biological warfare bombs used by the US on the Laotian peope during the Vietnam War, complete with maps and Pentagon reports and crafted into a book that sits like a grenade similar to some of Arab-American Phi Metres work that includes a very skillfull use of the "erasure" technique. And how about Honore Jeffers' The Age of Phillis?, a very fine writer's description of the battles of the great poet Phyllis Wheatley who made Thomas Jefferson show himself for the biggot that he was. Go find the poetry of South Korean wizard Kim Hyesoon and have, per Emily Dickenson, the top of your head come off at the unsurpassable surrealist imagery. Bring much duct tape. You will need at least one roll for each of her seven books, plus her friends Kim Yideum and Don Mee Choi (also her translator). Top it off with Douglas Kearney's poetry, if only for mindboggling typography.
As a fully committed member of whatever counterculture still exists (Burning Ambulance - fully independent since 2010!), all these tweets say to me is that, to quote Irving Berlin, "popular music is popular because a lot of people like it." And who cares? Personally, I have no trouble finding low-profile ("underground"/"counterculture") art, and never have. Sure, a record or a book or a movie with a million-dollar PR and advertising budget is gonna be easier to hear about than something shoved into the world with nothing but the love of its creator to propel it. But that's all the more reason why I choose to write about the latter. Want to support the counterculture? Instead of wasting your time bitching about pop fluff, which ultimately means nothing, spend your finite mortal lifespan alerting people to the good stuff that's everywhere...if you know where to find it. I don't even write negative reviews anymore. There's too much good music I could be writing about instead.
You hit a key element there: "if you know where to find it." If you know anything about Ted Gioia, he is constantly on the lookout for new music and fresh ideas. Part of the point he is making (I think) is that even a lot of independent art is tired because its underpinnings are more tied to a hustle-culture mindset than to actually asking something of the experiencer.
Another key is knowing or at least having a sense that something is missing. I fervently believe a big issue is the subversion and subduction of arts education in K-12 for "computer literacy," which at this point comes naturally through modern living. Sure, if you dig deep enough, anything can seem derivative. But there's an element of fresh needing to also be at least slightly unpredictable if not a little uncomfortable at first. I'm not talking about shock value, which is banal and boring unless you've lived a Kimmy Schmidt life, but that brain tickle that happens with a moment of surprise that was generated by an effort of creative force. I am probably not making sense here, but hey... I tried. And thanks for efforts in promoting creative works. I could not find Burning Ambience when I searched for it. Print only? Cheers.
“Hustle-culture” is a good term.
The Burning Ambulance "media empire" (hope you like out jazz and death metal!):
http://burningambulance.com
http://burningambulance.substack.com
http://www.osirispod.com/podcasts/burning-ambulance/
http://burningambulancemusic.bandcamp.com
Your post has me pondering what feels like an oxymoron: Is there such a thing as a powerful counterculture? And if there is such a thing then is there any powerful counterculture today? Though I’m not even sure how to define power. A few thoughts come to mind. There was a time when a major film studio would produce a movie like Taxi Driver. Remember when Snoop Dogg was dangerous? He’s now a spokesperson for multiple mainstream products. I think the mainstream distributors of art were once far more willing to take chances on the weird—the countercultural. But we live in a world where CODA is deemed to be the Best Picture.
If counter culture is dead then why did Substack succeed the way it has. Substack gave all of those cancelled by the MSM a place to be heard. Substack counter culture until very recently.
So you are into deconstructed analysis !o!
You guys are making it too hard on yourselves.
Already been there: tantric Buddhism, rainbow bridge.
"To be alive in this beautiful, self-organizing universe — to participate in the dance of life with senses to perceive it, lungs that breathe it, organs that draw nourishment from it — is a wonder beyond words."
JOANNA MACY
Yeah, I agree with what you’re saying here. And I also wonder if, in a capitalistic country, we are forced to measure the power of a counterculture by its capitalist success? Or at least the size of the audience? If a counterculture happens alone in a forest, does it make a sound when it falls?
Any decent counter-culture doesn’t give a damn about capitalism, almost by definition… at least in the US. Also, in my limited experience with the C-C, people are mainly doing things for themselves or to impress a small group of peers without much regard to what the larger world thinks.
Another thing… the corporate monoculture creates its own version of a counter-culture to sell to people and many people can’t tell the difference.
All good points. I’m thinking of a counterculture that speaks to more than a small audience of like-minded folks. A counterculture that challenges and changes the dominant cultural. But that kind of counterculture does have a short shelf life, doesn’t it?
Countercultures do seem to burn out pretty quickly. Punk was, what ‘77 to ‘79? The movements get commodified and the frontier of dissent moves someplace else.
If you die alone in your room watching tv
Does the tv still make a sound ?
At one point I saw I was using words like "fantastic" way too much in my reviews and wondered if I was reviewing records or just praising them. But after a few minutes, I came to the same conclusion you have; there's just a LOT of (objectively) good music out there.
I stopped writing book reviews over twenty years ago. And I’ve only provided about five book “blurbs” to be used to promote other people’s books. Why? I just got tired of seeing the word "essential” applied to everything out there.
Is anyone else familiar with the Little Village Foundation in the Bay Area? Run by a musician/producer, they produce CDs and concerts for musicians whose music is not in genres supported by the dominant paradigm. My roots guitarist friend Mary Flower literally received a surprise phone call from them a couple of years ago offering to produce a recording for her -- a great experience.
Kudos to Jim Pugh and his good works.
“Music of rebellion makes you wanna rage.
It’s made by millionaires nearly twice your age.” - Steven Wilson
It strikes me that having a counter-culture requires having a culture — that is, having a commonly accepted set of standards and ideals and cultural norms in general. "When everybody's somebody, then nobody's anybody." If anything goes, then there is no grain to go against — it's just a cultural hodge-podge.
This is a great point.
You've stated well and succinctly the reason that "counter-culture" no longer has any real meaning: there is no specific culture to which a counter-movement is possible. What we have now is a collection of cultures, many of which are counter to others. Some stick with some set of old traditions, others embrace some new combination of mores, beliefs, and values.
If there is no counter culture then why has Substack been so successful? It was Substack that gave those cancelled on the msm a place to speak to those looking for alternatives. Unfortunately Substack is no longer that place. The sheep are now gaslighting us on Substack.
It's interesting that we could have gone another direction (though I'm sure that any direction has its pitfalls): https://www.orionmagazine.org/article/the-gospel-of-consumption/
I think this is way underexplored and I’m looking forward to reading more of your analysis. I pulled together some relevant data here: https://experimentalhistory.substack.com/p/pop-culture-has-become-an-oligopoly?r=15aiai&utm_medium=ios
Ever occur to you that if you’re not aware of the counter-culture, then you’re not part of it? That, perhaps, you’re the culture they’re currently counter to? It’s not for you, that’s why you can’t see it or recognize it. Why would you expect it to take the same forms it did from 1950 to 2000, or whatever span of time you want to refer to? The world has changed. Alt-weeklies? Seriously? Weekly publications, much less monthly ones, are irrelevant before they hit the press.
You keep on blaming the ‘culture,’ and young people for the corporate consolidation of various creative industries that was largely perpetrated by people in your generation. I went to APW in Portland in 2019 and I was amazed by all the indie publishing that’s happening. Yeah, cinema isn’t what it was, but again, capitalism. At some point they decided that every movie should make a billion dollars and be bland enough to past muster in totalitarian regimes.
And sure, comics are finding it harder to make jokes that punch down at people who have been marginalized or even victimized. You have a problem with that? Personally I don’t. Generally a lot of people are sick of a culture that finds humor in making fun of queer kids, etc. you might even say that they’re “counter” that culture. Oh my, are they part of a counter culture?
Do you think your grandparents’ generation understood or approved of your youth culture?
Vapid comment.
You like to make assumptions. I just found his use of an ad hominem weak.
I find your use of ad hominems weak too. You’re also an asshole.
I don't know what your cultural preferences are, but I agree with you.
I am part of a sub-sub-culture.
Very little on the streaming channels or in the movies is part of that.
I watch my alma mater channel which has clean funny innovative programming.
(BYUTV)
Their comedy show Studio C is skit driven like SNL, but I can watch it with my young grandchildren ages 10 & 12. It's their favorite show. Lots of insider cultural references, too. They re-did the Joan of Arc story as a docudrama, they have a western series, an outer space series, a knight in shining armor series, and a kids solving mystery series, but all driven with values that are counter-culture, and spiritually oriented.
I think the Christian culture in general is now counter-culture, and that mainstream media conglomerates have no use for it.
Regnery is the publishing house that has all the conservative books on it.
I think you're giving way too much credit to "counter culture" as a "frontier or artistic production that's building new and exciting ways of understanding the world." Counter-culture is dope, sloppy dress, 'free love', and lack of visible means of support, all whilst demanding the mainstream majority give them respect for freeloading and breaking stuff that is vital to a healthy ongoing culture.
Wow, you must really hate Jesus, it’s hard to think of a more countercultural figure than him. My goodness, what are you even doing here? No counter-culture, no jazz, no Ted Gioia, no newsletter on which to make strange comments.
Your endlessly repetitive, and mud-slinging rants are quite one-sided. Of course far-left radical extremists are all that you say, but so are the far-right, radical extremists! I was part of that "counter-culture" of the late '60s/early '70s, and I learned long ago, that those who are on either extreme resemble each other far more than the group they claim to align with.
While at UCLA, in the midst of demonstrations protesting the Vietnam War, and Kent State shooting of unarmed students, I met a fiery leftist, who had just transferred from Yale or some other Ivy League school. At some point, he shared that at his previous school, he had been a big supporter of the war, and quite the conservative. It became quite clear that jumping from the extreme right to extreme left was as easy as changing his shorts!
That you reveal your disgust with extreme leftists, while giving a pass to extreme right-wingers, even defending extreme evangelicals (who only in a Bizarro World, could possibly see in Trump, some kind of Christ-like being)... Yet you flail away on the biases others may display, as if you're Mr. Objective. Quit pretending, you are highly biased, and you also resemble many of the things you are calling others. But then we know that is was that master propagandist, Goebbels, who advised their extremists to, "Accuse your opponent of that which you are guilty of."
Something which extremists, whether of the left, or the right, appear to be following quite zealously these days...
Project much? Who doesn’t object to being oppressed?
You think you’re elevating the discourse by quoting Habermas or whomever, but you’re actually shutting down discussion and making this place less fun.
A fascinating take on a deep-seated problem. This monoclonal culture seems to be everywhere and nowhere; and I think it's "nowhere" only because too few actually discuss it openly. Aren't universities supposed to be where young minds discover new things and are challenged? We all know that's not the case as speakers who are "controversial" are run off campus amid riots, in some cases. And words themselves are deemed unspeakable, without any consideration that a word is a snapshot of an idea, so by extension when you "cancel" words you are canceling ideas. At some point, you start running out of ideas! (That you can talk about.) Very interesting post.
Chris M
I followed the Scorsese thread from Discussing Film to IndieWire. I enjoyed that very much. One's age is definitely a factor in whether or not you view these times as lacking a counter culture. I was in college when one of my best friends was being shot up in Vietnam. I was fortunate to draw a high number in the first draft lottery. My formative years were filled with high profile assassinations. There were people in the streets and an accompanying soundtrack. What I was not aware of at the time was that we were "driving into the future while looking in the rearview mirror." The music that I listen to now, other than straight ahead jazz, blues & funk, is not in English. Around 1990 I discovered a whole new universe of music that I loved. It came from Guadeloupe, Martinique, T&T and Haiti. I then ventured into Africa and found some of the best music that I had ever heard. Some of it was retro like classic pre-Castro Cuban big band. As I age I think my appreciation for various art forms craves authenticity in whatever medium. These are my personal feelings. YMMV. I am sure that counter culture exists and will inform the future in uplifting transcendent ways. At least I hope that this is the case because the soul of the world needs it badly.
I just read that he did know Jung and taught at the Jung Institute for a time.
This is great, though it doesn't entirely fit with my experience as a consumer of culture. In the last year I've read a few excellent self-published novels, gone to a few indie rock shows that are decidedly not mainstream, and enjoyed a wide variety of online writing.
I wonder then if there *is* a counterculture but that it is thinly spread across dozens of different niches and genres. Countercultural art is out there, but it can't coalesce. This is no better when it comes to pushing back on mainstream culture, and monoculture amounts to a landgrab against a weak and divided enemy.
Substack is actually then a great example of this. Lots of great nonmainstream writing happens on Substack, but the individual support for writers doesn't easily translate into the Substack Monthly periodical or anything like that.
No one can afford to be countercultural - everything but the air (stay tuned) has been monetized, so it costs too much just to survive. We're all wage slaves now.
The culture around squatting has certainly diminished in the UK since the 1980's. Economic & Policy changes affecting housing, welfare rights and living wage opportunities have sadly eroded the chances of many young original minds & creative thinkers/musicians/writers/performers/artists/artisans etcetera who can think for themselves, ......
- (without being 'taught' how to regurgitate recycled countercultural theories & academic jargon through university systems)...
......of actually having the time and space to be creative unless, perhaps, they are living in a tent city & possibly being creative with a bottle of methadone.
I've been thinking about this topic after attending a "Start-up" workshop for founders...
They are all standing on the mobius strip believing that they are thinking outside the box. .
These 14 tweets are all about media of one kind or other. Of course, over the past seventy years we have become a media-obsessed society. One could argue that our concept of a counterculture stems from the time of the Beats, a media-oriented bunch, although there are deeper arguments of a much longer oppositional stance to the straight world, which I think is the essence of a counterculture. See Ken Goffman’s “ Counterculture Through the Ages: From Abraham to Acid House” among others. (Goffman is better known as R.U. Sirius, a media counterculturalist of some note.) However, one might also argue that culture is a different thing from media, that culture is a matter of the way one actually lives, not just how one presents to the world.
It is quite possible that the last place to find a meaningful counterculture is in media, particularly social media. Perhaps it’s hiding in all the outlying agricultural areas of new, young farmers trying to grow food in more sustainable ways. Of course, they communicate with various publications and are social, but they’re the ones with an oppositional stance to the way things are done and an eye to the future. And, yes, they have their own music! I’m pretty sure that sniffing around large corporate media operations will only show you the corpse of last year’s sensation, not the living, breathing mess that future life will be. Nothing wrong with being a little covert these days.
I wonder if the sameness of media and entertainment is a consequence of shareholder primacy (SP) business culture. Under SP culture the objective of business is shareholder value; financial metrics are prioritized above all else.
https://mikealexander.substack.com/p/how-economic-culture-evolves
Fifty years ago, business culture was stakeholder capitalism. This link shows a brief description of who economic policy before 1980 selected *against* shareholder primacy.
https://mikealexander.substack.com/p/what-is-neoliberalism-an-empirical#:~:text=CEOs%20could%20not,shareholder%20primacy%20culture.
In the 1980's policy changed to create an environment that selected from SP culture. The culture was maximally SC in the 1960's and 1970's, and maximally SP in the 1910's & 1920's and 2010's and 2020's see figure.
As far as media and culture industries are concerned today, under SP culture, predictable profitability is paramount since these two things are most rewarded by the stock market. Under SC culture the emphasis is on beating the competition as measured by a variety of metrics, not just share prices.
https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6ad6d961-0868-4a57-92cc-27180a766f40_642x256.gif
Fascinating insight, thank you.