If you mean man-made dogmas and orthodoxies, I agree with the fascism link. But then there is our inherent spirituality, which endows us as created souls with free will and other inalienable rights, like the right of free expression. Without free expression, there is no art.
Im not so sure those rights are inalienable. I suppose its a bit of wishful thinking though to call them inalienable.
Dont get me wrong, i do understand the meaning behind the term. But i dont think it does any good to not recognize the reality of ideas in practice. Its just when people are so convinced of the truth of something(like certain of their rights cannot be taken away) that the real truth is made known to them. Assurity begets complacency and all its associated evils.
Rather than suggest these rights cannot be taken, it should be made clear that they must be defended and protected, bc someone very much will try to take them(even here! even now!). And if people are unwilling to defend something, they will lose it. This is true on all levels, from personal relationships to world governments.
To your original point, i very much agree. It actually blows my mind that, considering the history of religion throughout human history, anyone could think its anything more than a manmade construct thats been hijacked for control purposes. It is in fact because religion links spirituality with control that makes it so effective and popular through the ages. Its a great way to manipulate your fellows, putting the squeeze on their immortal souls
I would say, rather, fascism is religion by other means. The problem is the fascism, not the religion (after all, many of the impugned performances are also expressions of religion).
To put it another way, Clausewitz said war is politics by other means. Even though war is hell, politics is inescapable and, practiced well, a force for good.
That’s not to say that fascism cannot be inflected with, and justified by, religion, just like war never escapes the politics that it violently expresses. But putting the categories in the right order helps us think more clearly about good and bad uses and ends of both.
You might find that my religion (which I founded) would appeal to you. There are only a few dogmas. 1)Sometimes wrong, but never in doubt. 2)We are you right and you are wrong.
Seriously, your comment is so terribly limited. It ignores the lived experience of many people like me who experience religious life as profoundly anti-fascist. I think you need to get out more and listen to people besides the proud atheists. Or listen to people besides yourself.
Thinking of what I posted last week and regretting it. This is a public apology to Barry and anyone else who read what I wrote. There’s no good reason for being snarky. As I told Barry in a private message, you think I would have learned after years on Internet forums about measuring words with people, especially when I can’t see them and don’t know them. Substack seems like a civil place, some fresh air in the wilderness of online commenting. I’m sorry I lowered the level…
What the Dylan movie got right was capturing that once-in-a-lifetime feeling that is so rarely experienced: Live music that you've never heard before that moves you.
The actors sang and played their own instruments live. What a concept!
Kingston, ON, a town near where I live, has banned live music on patios. In fact, they did this a couple of years ago because of concerns about noise bylaws.
Mind you, this is the same town that declared it wanted to be Music Canada two years ago.
This year, I approached several venues, specifically an Italian restaurant, Olivea’s, to see if they'd be interested in celebrating Jazz Appreciation Month with live jazz music.
The musicians would be paid by a fund called the Musicians' Performance Trust Fund, which is linked to the musicians’ union, the American Federation of Musicians. So, totally free to the venue.
The manager told me they would love to, but the insurance costs for live music had risen so high that they couldn't have live music anymore.
I asked him if there were that many fights between the 60- and 70-year-olds eating Italian food, and he said no, not really.
As a songwriter, this is fascinating. It’s gonna take a deep dive to get through all of this.
I’m writing and sharing unreleased songs on my little substack as part of my quest to just reach one person at a time. Now I feel like a revolutionary. 💪
My 19-year old son is on a similar path, writing and performing his rap lyrics and "releasing" them on Spotify. He is a good storyteller and as he matures I hope he realizes he can get his message across without the gratuitous f-bombs.
Bob Dylan never impressed as much as Phil Ochs, a 1960s protest song writer no one thinks about these days. I still have Ochs' vinyl albums, but not a one of Bob Dylan's.
I was hoping Phil Ochs would appear as one of the characters in the film. I've also read that people who know more about Dylan’s fellow Villagers of the time have pointed out that many were left out. But that’s how film storytelling works, even when based on true events, it's still fiction, shaped by many limitations.
I wish the bob marley movie had left me with the same impression the dylan movie has for you. Sadly, i was disappointed.
Idk what to say about the crazy music news from the world, except that we humans havent advanced as much as we think we have. Id hate to think that the 90s-00s were a pinnacle or peak, but more and more i get the feeling we're coming out of a golden age in arts(much of what ted writes has contributed to that feeling:/). But im not 100% sure that its not just me getting older, and the normal "things were better when" each generation experiences.
We need a something new, the coming thing. Wheres brisco county jr when you need him?
I dont know what it was about the Bob Marley movie, but something really didnt gell. A Complete Unknown however - the acting, the direction, the music... but mostly the acting. the actors, ALL of them, inhabited their characters. I really believed Edward Norton was Pete Seeger/
Yeah im not sure either. Id have to rewatch it to try to put my finger on it, but i remember leaving the theatre with a ho hum feeling. Perhaps bob is just too big in my mind for such a movie to satisfy my soul.
Thanks again for another provocative and inspiring article! You can add "Ode to Joy" to the list as well. "Following the Ninth" is worth a watch for those interested in music that moves change.
Yes, music shakes people up. And people want to be shaken up. But music also relaxes people. And today most Western people need to be relaxed. Not in a political sense, but in a practical way. And therefore the difference between the standard pitch of 440 Hz and the so called natural pitch of 432 Hz is at least very interesting.
I generally find your comments useful and interesting. but I'm not with you on the Dylan movie. It is a boring re-hash of a subject that's been done to death by many previous writers. The added narration is really insulting to the audience, and de-values the whole project. The lead does a decent job of portraying Dylan, but although Dylan is hardly the world's greatest singer, he usually tends to at least sing, shall we say, something resembling the melodies of his songs. Baez and Dylan's early girl friend Suzy Rotolo are portrayed with all the depth of a toothpick. The few black musicians appear in the film, ersatz Brownie McGhee and Sonny Terry and Big Bill Morganfeld are portrayed more along the lines of minstrels, rather than musicians. Dylan goes to NY, sees Woody and presto he's in his own apartment writing genius level songs. Nothing appears in the films about Dave Van Ronk or his wife Terri Thal, who mentored and Thal's case even briefly managed Dylan. Dylan's contemporaries. and competitors, Phi Ochs, Le Chandler, Mike Porco at Folk City, and other Dylan helpers aren't in the film. Al Grossman, not a likeable character, is portrayed as sort of a dumb care-taker. There's plenty not to like about Al, but his shuttling Dylan's songs to Peter, Paul & Mary, also his clients, helped greatly to create the Dylan explosion. Pete Seeger was not a carbon cut-out noble person, but at his best an interesting and inventive musician, and, gasp, a hit songwriter. The version of Wimoweh in the film is truly awful. It makes The Tokens' recording seem like an expert rendition of African music. OK, it's art, and not fact, but why move the epic Lomax-Grossman fisticuffs from it's actual location, after the Bloomfield band set and turn it into a Dylan confrontation?
"And people want to be shaken. The audience is hungry for this catalytic force—and the Dylan movie shows that repeatedly."
Well-said, here and throughout. I recently revisited the soundtrack of "O Brother Where art Thou," and texted a friend that it's good to know that I can still feel things, compliments of Allison Krauss (Down to the River to Pray) and Ralph Stanley (O Death). We need that shakeup now more than ever.
Reminds of me a DVD documentary I was given by a close friend on Pete Seeger. I had no idea how much of an impact Pete Seeger had (and the number of songs I knew that was written by him).
"the sound of women singing" now there's song title. The worthiest of Ted Threads. circa '82 I wrote a SA apartheid protest song for James Ingram's 1st album...an early attempt at a world beat groove with a haunting African chant. It told the story of a Geoffrey Ballet dancer who was in a car accident in SA and left on the highway by the ambulance because he was black. James put that tear into it that he did oh so well. Quincy Jones notated the chant and said "beautiful man, we need dance hits". And so it went back when...
Interesting to see the through-line of religion in most of these stories. Religion is fascism by other means.
If you mean man-made dogmas and orthodoxies, I agree with the fascism link. But then there is our inherent spirituality, which endows us as created souls with free will and other inalienable rights, like the right of free expression. Without free expression, there is no art.
I referenced religion, not spirituality; I have no argument with you.
Im not so sure those rights are inalienable. I suppose its a bit of wishful thinking though to call them inalienable.
Dont get me wrong, i do understand the meaning behind the term. But i dont think it does any good to not recognize the reality of ideas in practice. Its just when people are so convinced of the truth of something(like certain of their rights cannot be taken away) that the real truth is made known to them. Assurity begets complacency and all its associated evils.
Rather than suggest these rights cannot be taken, it should be made clear that they must be defended and protected, bc someone very much will try to take them(even here! even now!). And if people are unwilling to defend something, they will lose it. This is true on all levels, from personal relationships to world governments.
To your original point, i very much agree. It actually blows my mind that, considering the history of religion throughout human history, anyone could think its anything more than a manmade construct thats been hijacked for control purposes. It is in fact because religion links spirituality with control that makes it so effective and popular through the ages. Its a great way to manipulate your fellows, putting the squeeze on their immortal souls
I would say, rather, fascism is religion by other means. The problem is the fascism, not the religion (after all, many of the impugned performances are also expressions of religion).
To put it another way, Clausewitz said war is politics by other means. Even though war is hell, politics is inescapable and, practiced well, a force for good.
That’s not to say that fascism cannot be inflected with, and justified by, religion, just like war never escapes the politics that it violently expresses. But putting the categories in the right order helps us think more clearly about good and bad uses and ends of both.
Religion makes heavy use of music ... but only of approved music. All other music is ... merely tolerated, at best.
You might find that my religion (which I founded) would appeal to you. There are only a few dogmas. 1)Sometimes wrong, but never in doubt. 2)We are you right and you are wrong.
Seriously, your comment is so terribly limited. It ignores the lived experience of many people like me who experience religious life as profoundly anti-fascist. I think you need to get out more and listen to people besides the proud atheists. Or listen to people besides yourself.
Thinking of what I posted last week and regretting it. This is a public apology to Barry and anyone else who read what I wrote. There’s no good reason for being snarky. As I told Barry in a private message, you think I would have learned after years on Internet forums about measuring words with people, especially when I can’t see them and don’t know them. Substack seems like a civil place, some fresh air in the wilderness of online commenting. I’m sorry I lowered the level…
Never said I was atheist, much less proud, but thanks for sharing your views.
What the Dylan movie got right was capturing that once-in-a-lifetime feeling that is so rarely experienced: Live music that you've never heard before that moves you.
The actors sang and played their own instruments live. What a concept!
Kingston, ON, a town near where I live, has banned live music on patios. In fact, they did this a couple of years ago because of concerns about noise bylaws.
Mind you, this is the same town that declared it wanted to be Music Canada two years ago.
This year, I approached several venues, specifically an Italian restaurant, Olivea’s, to see if they'd be interested in celebrating Jazz Appreciation Month with live jazz music.
The musicians would be paid by a fund called the Musicians' Performance Trust Fund, which is linked to the musicians’ union, the American Federation of Musicians. So, totally free to the venue.
The manager told me they would love to, but the insurance costs for live music had risen so high that they couldn't have live music anymore.
I asked him if there were that many fights between the 60- and 70-year-olds eating Italian food, and he said no, not really.
"Music that you've never heard before."
You are right -- this is the essential musical being.
John Cage got it right. When asked, he said is favourite music was the music he had never heard before.
His use of chance operations was his way to get there -- EVEN FOR HIS OWN MUSIC.
The common view is that music that touches us is familiar -- even nostalgic -- Spotify's algorithms.
But think about the musical experiences that REALLY hit you -- that you remember to this day...
It was the first time.
Something you had never heard before.
Humans need new experiences. Every day is a new day. Every sound is new.
Cage was right...but so is "Some things never get old."
Isn't Kingston the home of The Hip. What a sad way they've chosen to honor Gord's legacy.
Is this why we can't have nice things anymore...even when the price is "free"? The insurance is unaffordable?
What a note for our civilization to end on.
As a songwriter, this is fascinating. It’s gonna take a deep dive to get through all of this.
I’m writing and sharing unreleased songs on my little substack as part of my quest to just reach one person at a time. Now I feel like a revolutionary. 💪
Good luck, Amy!
My 19-year old son is on a similar path, writing and performing his rap lyrics and "releasing" them on Spotify. He is a good storyteller and as he matures I hope he realizes he can get his message across without the gratuitous f-bombs.
We need more beauty in this world.
Bob Dylan never impressed as much as Phil Ochs, a 1960s protest song writer no one thinks about these days. I still have Ochs' vinyl albums, but not a one of Bob Dylan's.
I was hoping Phil Ochs would appear as one of the characters in the film. I've also read that people who know more about Dylan’s fellow Villagers of the time have pointed out that many were left out. But that’s how film storytelling works, even when based on true events, it's still fiction, shaped by many limitations.
Yes, Phil Ochs was a much-overlooked musical genius.
Enjoyed the Dylan movie thoroughly.
It's the human heart that's dangerous. Jung said the opposite of love was power. The powerful fear music because it opens up the heart so entirely.
Nice. There are humans in history who had power thrust upon but maintained love. But they are rare.
Something to aspire to.
Those kids wouldn't have been expelled and warned if they had done that dance at a Canadian school- more likely, they would be commended.
I wish the bob marley movie had left me with the same impression the dylan movie has for you. Sadly, i was disappointed.
Idk what to say about the crazy music news from the world, except that we humans havent advanced as much as we think we have. Id hate to think that the 90s-00s were a pinnacle or peak, but more and more i get the feeling we're coming out of a golden age in arts(much of what ted writes has contributed to that feeling:/). But im not 100% sure that its not just me getting older, and the normal "things were better when" each generation experiences.
We need a something new, the coming thing. Wheres brisco county jr when you need him?
I dont know what it was about the Bob Marley movie, but something really didnt gell. A Complete Unknown however - the acting, the direction, the music... but mostly the acting. the actors, ALL of them, inhabited their characters. I really believed Edward Norton was Pete Seeger/
Yeah im not sure either. Id have to rewatch it to try to put my finger on it, but i remember leaving the theatre with a ho hum feeling. Perhaps bob is just too big in my mind for such a movie to satisfy my soul.
Thanks again for another provocative and inspiring article! You can add "Ode to Joy" to the list as well. "Following the Ninth" is worth a watch for those interested in music that moves change.
Yes, music shakes people up. And people want to be shaken up. But music also relaxes people. And today most Western people need to be relaxed. Not in a political sense, but in a practical way. And therefore the difference between the standard pitch of 440 Hz and the so called natural pitch of 432 Hz is at least very interesting.
I generally find your comments useful and interesting. but I'm not with you on the Dylan movie. It is a boring re-hash of a subject that's been done to death by many previous writers. The added narration is really insulting to the audience, and de-values the whole project. The lead does a decent job of portraying Dylan, but although Dylan is hardly the world's greatest singer, he usually tends to at least sing, shall we say, something resembling the melodies of his songs. Baez and Dylan's early girl friend Suzy Rotolo are portrayed with all the depth of a toothpick. The few black musicians appear in the film, ersatz Brownie McGhee and Sonny Terry and Big Bill Morganfeld are portrayed more along the lines of minstrels, rather than musicians. Dylan goes to NY, sees Woody and presto he's in his own apartment writing genius level songs. Nothing appears in the films about Dave Van Ronk or his wife Terri Thal, who mentored and Thal's case even briefly managed Dylan. Dylan's contemporaries. and competitors, Phi Ochs, Le Chandler, Mike Porco at Folk City, and other Dylan helpers aren't in the film. Al Grossman, not a likeable character, is portrayed as sort of a dumb care-taker. There's plenty not to like about Al, but his shuttling Dylan's songs to Peter, Paul & Mary, also his clients, helped greatly to create the Dylan explosion. Pete Seeger was not a carbon cut-out noble person, but at his best an interesting and inventive musician, and, gasp, a hit songwriter. The version of Wimoweh in the film is truly awful. It makes The Tokens' recording seem like an expert rendition of African music. OK, it's art, and not fact, but why move the epic Lomax-Grossman fisticuffs from it's actual location, after the Bloomfield band set and turn it into a Dylan confrontation?
"And people want to be shaken. The audience is hungry for this catalytic force—and the Dylan movie shows that repeatedly."
Well-said, here and throughout. I recently revisited the soundtrack of "O Brother Where art Thou," and texted a friend that it's good to know that I can still feel things, compliments of Allison Krauss (Down to the River to Pray) and Ralph Stanley (O Death). We need that shakeup now more than ever.
This might be the best Honest Broker article. Thanks Ted for pulling together such a wide range of references to support the point.
Loved the movie.
Reminds of me a DVD documentary I was given by a close friend on Pete Seeger. I had no idea how much of an impact Pete Seeger had (and the number of songs I knew that was written by him).
"the sound of women singing" now there's song title. The worthiest of Ted Threads. circa '82 I wrote a SA apartheid protest song for James Ingram's 1st album...an early attempt at a world beat groove with a haunting African chant. It told the story of a Geoffrey Ballet dancer who was in a car accident in SA and left on the highway by the ambulance because he was black. James put that tear into it that he did oh so well. Quincy Jones notated the chant and said "beautiful man, we need dance hits". And so it went back when...
I hope you’ve been listening to Jesse Welles! https://youtube.com/shorts/mXgWfKYFBhM?si=4Yx6mwGCkNyVprYU