Thanks for this insightful conversation Jared! My husband Peco and I will be addressing similar questions at the Doomer Optimism Gathering this weekend and will be presenting our insights on how we can practically address these challenges in our lives (we'll share the presentation on our Substack as well).
"...hosting or attending parties, social events, or ceremonies has declined something like 70% for young people." One aspect that I have not seen discussed anywhere, is that this stat does not reflect a subgroup of young people who are part of solid faith communities.
Our teens (and their very large circle of friends) have the most active social life one could possibly imagine: they organize traditional dances (regularly drawing over 150 teens& university-aged people); host camp fire evenings; hang out for hours after church discussing life, the universe, and everything; work out together; gather at each other's houses to sing; are serious about commitment and strive for marriage and family. Many of them do have smartphones, but they are simply irrelevant.
Maybe we need to look more toward how technology loses its grip when young people have a meaningful foundation in their lives and an orientation that turns them towards others rather than themselves.
I'm an 80 yo retired physician/psychiatrist and an only (lonely) child. I have only just recently realized that I was raised (??) by two deeply narcissistic parents, both of whom were compensating (Alfred Adler) for the loss of their parents in the 1918 flu pandemic. They sucked ever molecule of oxygen out of the air in any room I was unfortunate enough to have shared with them. I was just wall paper or the success story my mother foisted on every other member of her family, so they all hated my guts and abused me. I have forgiven them and my 42 yr. psychiatry practice was predicated on the old Indian metaphor: "don't judge me until you've walked a mile in MY moccasins". I believe that a huge number of us suffer from the consequences from and compensations for childhood abandonment. Way too many parents are having children that can neither find the time or love to raise, just like their poor dogs/cats locked away at home and desperately lonely. Have a blessed day/evening. You're on the right track.
I think this is something of an understatement in that we are all the products of our parents and they of theirs and so on back to whenever you care to stop thinking about it. No parents are perfect. All parents are processing their own lives. My example is that both my parents lost their fathers in WWII. During that war they were teenagers in Britain and you may confidently bet that was not a happy time in general. My father’s grandfather was killed in WWI. So there is a multigenerational break of family life. Most family systems do not reflect the sentimental view of family life that has become so prevalent in today’s happy world. I am, of course, being sarcastic about today’s happy world - but there’s an unrealistic and widespread hype about the normality of such a thing. My point is that there is indeed widespread trauma and that inevitably gets spread around a bit. The lies we are told about life by the consumer society we live in do not help. And, my family experiences are as nothing compared to the traumas endured by those whose ancestors were enslaved or who are currently, or have been, the victims of genocides - or empire. Or those many others who experience life’s misfortunes on a repeated basis. To paraphrase you, “Walk a mile in another person’s shoes.” We are trained not to do so by the apparent necessities of the economy. The question may be, “Why does new technology so often separate us further from our fellow beings?” Think automobiles, television, and now the internet. We tend to think that other people’s shoes are for admiring as a fashion statement, not for things to walk around in.
The megalopolis social bubbles are collapsing. 98% plus have no connection with producing their own food and sustenance through physical interaction with Nature.
That people are enabled to have proxie interactions wirh no real responsibility is just an indicator of tjat imminent collapse.
These are symptoms of a spiritual crisis. When the material forces over take the spiritual forces in a society, it becomes aberrated, introverted and hostile.
They built the great cathedrals and Abbey's in in Europe honor of higher forces. Spiritual matters drove building. Today, our tallest skyscrapers honor the God's of Capitalism. Of course, I'm not against capitalism. But when it eclipses the spiritual forces, there is a fall out.
Did Thoreau tell us long ago that "most men lead lives of quiet desperation" Has anything changed? Maybe the quiet desperation is becoming more audible for all of us to hear?
We were promised the American Dream. Who promised that? Wasn't that a politician? As the industrial revolution progressed, we could move product to markets. Usually at the cost of a few lives. Once we got ours, there was no more stick ball on the streets, or neighborhood bbq's.
Now we could afford our own grill and our kids could pitch the ball into a net as we moved out of the cities. "From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats."
Storytelling was absolutely central to ancient Greek and Roman societies—not just entertainment, but the primary vehicle for education, religion, politics, identity, and moral instruction. Same for Native American and African tribes.
We have no stories. We have no songs that we sing together. The Shaman's are influencers on social media. They no longer sit at the table with us and break bread.
A spiritually focused society seeks knowledge and wisdom. It creates great art and music that is not blocked by the capitalist forces in society.
We are not living in an Age of Enlightenment and the only anecdote until nature takes it's course is to create a golden age within your own consciousness and your daily life. Fill your space with knowledge, wisdom, beautiful art and music.
Because the alternative is socialism, it's older brother communism or feudalism. None of those systems are better and they do represent a spiritual crisis. Innovation=good. Earning a living=good. Crony capitalism represented by political interest that kills main street for the East Indian Trading Company and pricing the little guy out through over regulation and taxes=bad.
Seems to me we need new thinking all round when it comes to organizing our human affairs both socially and economically. It’s arguable that capitalism is simply a “natural” outgrowth of human nature - we all need to look after ourselves as well as we can. One might in a similar way claim that socialism is a more altruistic expression of human nature. One might have a long discussion about what is human nature. Regardless, at this time, capitalism has metastasized into a dire ecological threat upon our species’ common future - and it is not a good, even a fair, deal for many of those at the bottom of the heap or otherwise excluded from its bounty. It’s just not good enough is my objection to it and why I asked you the questions. It seems to me that your last sentence describes an almost inevitable, although perhaps not permanent, outcome of the historical process and underlying mechanics of capitalism as we know it. Certainly, capitalism as it has become with its emphasis on materialism seems not to foster “a spiritually focused society,” although a certain degree of spiritualism is tolerated - and, of course, when a buck can be made, capitalism will take the money.
RE: The notion of "AI as enabling therapist" (About 25 min into this video) is hilariously spoofed in a recent video by Eddy Burback on YouTube. Warning, however, it is an hour long.
Thanks for this insightful conversation Jared! My husband Peco and I will be addressing similar questions at the Doomer Optimism Gathering this weekend and will be presenting our insights on how we can practically address these challenges in our lives (we'll share the presentation on our Substack as well).
"...hosting or attending parties, social events, or ceremonies has declined something like 70% for young people." One aspect that I have not seen discussed anywhere, is that this stat does not reflect a subgroup of young people who are part of solid faith communities.
Our teens (and their very large circle of friends) have the most active social life one could possibly imagine: they organize traditional dances (regularly drawing over 150 teens& university-aged people); host camp fire evenings; hang out for hours after church discussing life, the universe, and everything; work out together; gather at each other's houses to sing; are serious about commitment and strive for marriage and family. Many of them do have smartphones, but they are simply irrelevant.
Maybe we need to look more toward how technology loses its grip when young people have a meaningful foundation in their lives and an orientation that turns them towards others rather than themselves.
I'm an 80 yo retired physician/psychiatrist and an only (lonely) child. I have only just recently realized that I was raised (??) by two deeply narcissistic parents, both of whom were compensating (Alfred Adler) for the loss of their parents in the 1918 flu pandemic. They sucked ever molecule of oxygen out of the air in any room I was unfortunate enough to have shared with them. I was just wall paper or the success story my mother foisted on every other member of her family, so they all hated my guts and abused me. I have forgiven them and my 42 yr. psychiatry practice was predicated on the old Indian metaphor: "don't judge me until you've walked a mile in MY moccasins". I believe that a huge number of us suffer from the consequences from and compensations for childhood abandonment. Way too many parents are having children that can neither find the time or love to raise, just like their poor dogs/cats locked away at home and desperately lonely. Have a blessed day/evening. You're on the right track.
I think this is something of an understatement in that we are all the products of our parents and they of theirs and so on back to whenever you care to stop thinking about it. No parents are perfect. All parents are processing their own lives. My example is that both my parents lost their fathers in WWII. During that war they were teenagers in Britain and you may confidently bet that was not a happy time in general. My father’s grandfather was killed in WWI. So there is a multigenerational break of family life. Most family systems do not reflect the sentimental view of family life that has become so prevalent in today’s happy world. I am, of course, being sarcastic about today’s happy world - but there’s an unrealistic and widespread hype about the normality of such a thing. My point is that there is indeed widespread trauma and that inevitably gets spread around a bit. The lies we are told about life by the consumer society we live in do not help. And, my family experiences are as nothing compared to the traumas endured by those whose ancestors were enslaved or who are currently, or have been, the victims of genocides - or empire. Or those many others who experience life’s misfortunes on a repeated basis. To paraphrase you, “Walk a mile in another person’s shoes.” We are trained not to do so by the apparent necessities of the economy. The question may be, “Why does new technology so often separate us further from our fellow beings?” Think automobiles, television, and now the internet. We tend to think that other people’s shoes are for admiring as a fashion statement, not for things to walk around in.
The megalopolis social bubbles are collapsing. 98% plus have no connection with producing their own food and sustenance through physical interaction with Nature.
That people are enabled to have proxie interactions wirh no real responsibility is just an indicator of tjat imminent collapse.
Steinbeck would be a terrible influencer. Reading novels is a luxury in the attention economy.
These are symptoms of a spiritual crisis. When the material forces over take the spiritual forces in a society, it becomes aberrated, introverted and hostile.
They built the great cathedrals and Abbey's in in Europe honor of higher forces. Spiritual matters drove building. Today, our tallest skyscrapers honor the God's of Capitalism. Of course, I'm not against capitalism. But when it eclipses the spiritual forces, there is a fall out.
Did Thoreau tell us long ago that "most men lead lives of quiet desperation" Has anything changed? Maybe the quiet desperation is becoming more audible for all of us to hear?
We were promised the American Dream. Who promised that? Wasn't that a politician? As the industrial revolution progressed, we could move product to markets. Usually at the cost of a few lives. Once we got ours, there was no more stick ball on the streets, or neighborhood bbq's.
Now we could afford our own grill and our kids could pitch the ball into a net as we moved out of the cities. "From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats."
Storytelling was absolutely central to ancient Greek and Roman societies—not just entertainment, but the primary vehicle for education, religion, politics, identity, and moral instruction. Same for Native American and African tribes.
We have no stories. We have no songs that we sing together. The Shaman's are influencers on social media. They no longer sit at the table with us and break bread.
A spiritually focused society seeks knowledge and wisdom. It creates great art and music that is not blocked by the capitalist forces in society.
We are not living in an Age of Enlightenment and the only anecdote until nature takes it's course is to create a golden age within your own consciousness and your daily life. Fill your space with knowledge, wisdom, beautiful art and music.
“ Of course, I'm not against capitalism.”
Why not? Why “of course”?
Because the alternative is socialism, it's older brother communism or feudalism. None of those systems are better and they do represent a spiritual crisis. Innovation=good. Earning a living=good. Crony capitalism represented by political interest that kills main street for the East Indian Trading Company and pricing the little guy out through over regulation and taxes=bad.
Seems to me we need new thinking all round when it comes to organizing our human affairs both socially and economically. It’s arguable that capitalism is simply a “natural” outgrowth of human nature - we all need to look after ourselves as well as we can. One might in a similar way claim that socialism is a more altruistic expression of human nature. One might have a long discussion about what is human nature. Regardless, at this time, capitalism has metastasized into a dire ecological threat upon our species’ common future - and it is not a good, even a fair, deal for many of those at the bottom of the heap or otherwise excluded from its bounty. It’s just not good enough is my objection to it and why I asked you the questions. It seems to me that your last sentence describes an almost inevitable, although perhaps not permanent, outcome of the historical process and underlying mechanics of capitalism as we know it. Certainly, capitalism as it has become with its emphasis on materialism seems not to foster “a spiritually focused society,” although a certain degree of spiritualism is tolerated - and, of course, when a buck can be made, capitalism will take the money.
RE: The notion of "AI as enabling therapist" (About 25 min into this video) is hilariously spoofed in a recent video by Eddy Burback on YouTube. Warning, however, it is an hour long.
https://youtu.be/VRjgNgJms3Q?si=v8y9ZkzEdtZkQQQn